Technical Which spark plugs?

[AyeCarumba]

Hello all
I've just put my reg into eurocarparts to get some spark plugs for my 08 1.2 dynamic Panda and have been given many different options by same manufacturers (ngk or bosch). How do I know which ones are correct?
Cheers

 

[koalar]

http://www.ngkntk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/spark-and-glow-cat-2015.pdf


Page 29


Only has one listed for 06 onwards.

 

[portland_bill]

There seems to be two listed from 06.
DCPR7E-N-10 (4983) This is for the 60hp engine after the plug thread size reduced early 06. My car built Jan 06 has these.

ZKR7A-10 is (1691) for different engine number range, presumably this is the 70hp engine, from 2010.

Page 7 of the cat gives details of what the numbering system means.

 

[koalar]

There seems to be two listed from 06.
DCPR7E-N-10 (4983) This is for the 60hp engine after the plug thread size reduced early 06. My car built Jan 06 has these.

ZKR7A-10 is (1691) for different engine number range, presumably this is the 70hp engine, from 2010.

Page 7 of the cat gives details of what the numbering system means.

I only see one listed for the 1.2 post February 2006


Yours January will be different to the original posters 08

 

[portland_bill]

There seems to be two listed from 06.
DCPR7E-N-10 (4983) This is for the 60hp engine after the plug thread size reduced early 06. My car built Jan 06 has these.

ZKR7A-10 is (1691) for different engine number range, presumably this is the 70hp engine, from 2010.

Page 7 of the cat gives details of what the numbering system means.

I only see one listed for the 1.2 post February 2006


Yours January will be different to the original posters 08

4983 is listed 04-> without an end date.
1691 is listed for 06-> again without an end date.

Therefore there are two listed for an 08 vehicle. The plug manufacturer does it this way because the end date of one is unclear and the start date of the other is also unclear. This is because the plug was fitted into other models as well as Panda, and Fiat was probably unclear at returning data to NGK. Once each engine has a plug allocated, the engine manufacturer just buys what they need accordingly.

However, the listing is clear in showing engine number allocation. As I said above, this is the change from 60hp to 70hp, which I understand was around the time they facelifted the car and added the large mirrors, which was the 2010 model year. Making the 4983 correct for the 08 model. 08 was when the 70hp engine was introduced to 500 and also I think Punto, but the Panda didn't get it immediately.

For the OP, it would be best to refer to their engine number range.

 

[bluejohn125]

I didn't know that the Punto got the cleverer 70 hp engine... I suppose it must have to meet some emissions regs or other, and to keep commonality with the rest of the range. The Grande 1.2 I rented in Italy last year didn't seem powerful but comparable with a 500 I suppose, it did have pretty low gearing.

I never fail to be exasperated how many peiople come on here demanding advice about their cars when the almighty Eurocarparts website gives unclear suggestions based on their sodding Reg number. Check your manual, check the actual part on your car, go to an actual parts supplier and get your own answer! :bang:

 

[irc]

I never fail to be exasperated how many peiople come on here demanding advice about their cars when the almighty Eurocarparts website gives unclear suggestions based on their sodding Reg number. Check your manual, check the actual part on your car, go to an actual parts supplier and get your own answer! :bang:

Yep.
Even when there's only one choice listed it's not unusual for an incorrect part to arrive. They do seem to swap wrong parts without too much argument, but that's not much help when the car is already in bits. Not just ECP, either.
I try to get the original part number from the old part if possible and order exactly that.

For service items (e.g. oil filters, spark plugs etc.) I make a note of the correct part number in the handbook or bills file for the car the first time I do a service. Then it's easy to just order the right part every time.
Doesnt stop ECP from sending me a wrong'un from time to time, but it's easy to check what arrived by part number.

(Although I prefer to use Shop4Parts anyway as
- the parts they stock tend to be higher quality for fairly similar price once forum discount is applied,
- they haven't yet sent me a wrong part or "forgot" to tell me it was out of stock despite accepting the order,
- they seem much more willing to try to narrow things down on the phone when there are multiple choices)

 

[koalar]

4983 is listed 04-> without an end date.
1691 is listed for 06-> again without an end date.

Therefore there are two listed for an 08 vehicle. The plug manufacturer does it this way because the end date of one is unclear and the start date of the other is also unclear. This is because the plug was fitted into other models as well as Panda, and Fiat was probably unclear at returning data to NGK. Once each engine has a plug allocated, the engine manufacturer just buys what they need accordingly.

However, the listing is clear in showing engine number allocation. As I said above, this is the change from 60hp to 70hp, which I understand was around the time they facelifted the car and added the large mirrors, which was the 2010 model year. Making the 4983 correct for the 08 model. 08 was when the 70hp engine was introduced to 500 and also I think Punto, but the Panda didn't get it immediately.

For the OP, it would be best to refer to their engine number range.

Cheers that makes sense.

At least its not hard to check the engine code as its on the plate under the carpet in the boot left hand side

 

[koalar]

check the actual part on your car, go to an actual parts supplier and get your own answer! :bang:

Only if you know the history of the car and serviced by a competent person. Otherwise you will be copying their mistakes.


As an example the GFs Panda has the wrong handbrake cable fitted to one side by the previous owner. Nope they didn't do it themselves it was fitted by a garage.

 

[irc]

Only if you know the history of the car and serviced by a competent person. Otherwise you will be copying their mistakes.

In that sort of situation I would tend to resort to phoning a dealer or specialist parts supplier who is willing to think as well as read from a screen. Most parts desk people nowadays only seem to know how to read a screen, and have never actually touched a spare part, let alone fitted one.

It's a very good point though... I have been stuffed by some dodgy garage goon fitting a wrong aux belt that was long enough to be loose on maximum adjustment when fitted. Took more time to convince the owner that their alternator had not failed than to find and fit a proper belt.

 

[portland_bill]

Aftermarket parts suppliers do face a challenge when sourcing and cataloguing parts. The vehicle manufacturer will work hard to keep its information to itself, so changes are often not picked up.
Where parts are supplied by the OE source, like NGK plugs, the listings are more accurate, but as we've seen here, once the plug is matched to the engine, how the vehicle manufacturer uses that engine is not fed back to the plug supplier. Brake suppliers can present a similar issue, they know the parts supplied, but often choices are given, but when investigated closely can be separated by 2wd/4wd, etc. Aftermarket suspension suppliers will often just copy OE parts, and may not pick up on later changes.
Investigating, analysing and keeping on top of this takes a lot of effort, and therefore cost. Most aftermarket suppliers now rely on their suppliers for application listings, and alternative suppliers may have conflicting information. This is especially so with differing market specifications. I worked for many years doing such a job for a major aftermarket supplier, but eventually the costs of getting it absolutely right was too much.

So please, don't be too hard on the poor soul at the counter trying to help you out. they are not all dedicated enthusiasts.

 

[jackwhoo]

if your engine number starts 188A4 you need ngk stock number 4983


if engine number starts 169A4 or 199A4 you need ngk stock number 1691

 

[AyeCarumba]

I never fail to be exasperated how many peiople come on here demanding advice about their cars when the almighty Eurocarparts website gives unclear suggestions based on their sodding Reg number. Check your manual, check the actual part on your car, go to an actual parts supplier and get your own answer! :bang:

I never fail to be exasperated by people's effort to be rude,negative or unhelpful instead of simply keeping quiet.

1) I like talking to people and getting information through communication and other people's experiences
2) it was late at night and I wanted to order them before I went to sleep.
I did indeed go and remove one the next day. It is a dcpr7e
Was the correct one fitted though? I have just purchased the car and wanted to get involved in the forum. I believe a forum is a place for discussion so if you dislike it, perhaps you are in the wrong place?

 

[AyeCarumba]

At least its not hard to check the engine code as its on the plate under the carpet in the boot left hand side[/QUOTE]

I've been searching all over the engine bay for that! Cheers

 

[portland_bill]

Well said.

I believe the DCPR7E is the correct one for your vehicle, as it should be too early for the other one.
But the current ones will not be the original, so could be wrong if a previous fitter didn't choose the right ones.
Although, I'd expect even the worst fitter to check that the ones removed were the same as the ones going back in, so therefore I expect these to be correct. Incorrect ones are more likely to occur when changing brands, such as from NGK to Bosch or Denso.
Your registration document does not give the engine number series, but the plate in the boot, under the mat, left side, should give this. I'm expecting it to read 188A.4000, not 169A...
But best to check, and should be quick and easy, unless the boot is full of stuff. (Body of anyone rude to you? perhaps?):devil:

 

[Goudrons]

(Although I prefer to use Shop4Parts anyway as
- the parts they stock tend to be higher quality for fairly similar price once forum discount is applied,
- they haven't yet sent me a wrong part or "forgot" to tell me it was out of stock despite accepting the order,
- they seem much more willing to try to narrow things down on the phone when there are multiple choices)

Couldn't agree more!
They do know what's what with Fiats and Alfas and as models get older, owners will need these types of suppliers to keep their rides on the road.
So it's worth keeping them in business.

It's worth a note to say a small smear of copperslip on the plug threads will help with galvanic corrosion that tends to form between the steel plug and the alloy head.
There's been at least one post recently of a stuck plug!

 

[jrkitching]

This has all been covered before in a great deal of detail in this thread which highlights the differences between the OEM plugs, and the reasons for them, in the 60HP & 69HP engines. Start reading from about post 11.

To cut to the chase, both OEM plug types are identical except that the plugs used in the 69HP unit have a 2mm tip projection. Both are old technology copper core plugs which are basically rubbish; they'll be past their best after 6,000 miles and utterly shagged out after 12,000.

Much better is the NGK iridium DCPR7EIX; about twice the price but will run at least 60,000 miles without issues*. Technically a direct replacement for the DCPR7E-N-10, it'll work fine in either engine. Any supposed benefit from the tip projection is greatly outweighed by the technical superiority of the fine wire precious metal plugs.

I've considerble personal experience of running the DCPR7EIX in both engine types.

*though if they're going to be in there for that kind of mileage/time, the importance of using antiseize on the treads cannot be overemphasised if you ever want to get them out again.

 

[jackwhoo]

Copper grease / anti seize are loaded with lead , be very careful how much you use or there is danger of killing lambda/O2 sensor.
Personally I no longer use it on spark plugs.
I like NGK plugs.
If your plugs are easy to get at and you like keeping an eye on them and don't mind changing them , the old tech ones could be for you.

Stay in forum I like your style.
Questions are good they give some people a chance to help which benefits both sides and extra tips crop up.
I had no idea engine code on back plate in boot(as far away from engine as possible!)

 

[DaveMcT]

Copper grease / anti seize are loaded with lead , be very careful how much you use or there is danger of killing lambda/O2 sensor.
Personally I no longer use it on spark plugs.
I like NGK plugs.
If your plugs are easy to get at and you like keeping an eye on them and don't mind changing them , the old tech ones could be for you.

Stay in forum I like your style.
Questions are good they give some people a chance to help which benefits both sides and extra tips crop up.
I had no idea engine code on back plate in boot(as far away from engine as possible!)

It depends what you buy. There is plenty of no lead antiseize pasted available. Copper and nickel both work well as they are both about the same on the galvanic scale. Rocol products are some of the very best. Not cheap but a tube will last years and a pot will last a lifetime (for a DIY mechanic).

Saying that I use this stuff. Its protected stainless fasteners into aluminium where the zinc plated OEM fasters failed and seized.

https://www.actioncan.com/product/cs-90/