Technical Where to add water?

[lljkk]

(Yes I know, all gather around for a good laugh)

Tried to google this but couldn't find anything reliable. Realised I haven't done any maintenance to 500 in long time. Is this where I add radiator water? Because I found sweet fluid elsewhere in the engine that doesn't look like water intake otherwise.

Do I need to get distilled water & the right amount of antifreeze in there?

How bad is it if I use tap water (fairly hard water area)?

Thx!

 

[zanes]

Is this where I add radiator water? Because I found sweet fluid elsewhere in the engine that doesn't look like water intake otherwise.]

Yes

Do I need to get distilled water & the right amount of antifreeze in there?

Yes, although if it's a small amount you could just use neat antifreeze

How bad is it if I use tap water (fairly hard water area)?

Not worth taking the chance for a couple of quid of distilled water.

However, you absolutely MUST find out where the water is going (if anywhere- check the level first).

I'd check your thermostat housing, as per other recent threads about cooling. To be honest (and please don't take this the wrong way) it's clear that you're not really sure about things like this, so I'd recommend taking it to someone who does/a trusted local garage.

Also, tasting antifreeze is a very bad idea.

 

[frupi]

Also, tasting antifreeze is a very bad idea.

A very, very bad idea! Enough of the stuff can make a person go both deaf and blind! Oh, and it could kill in sufficient quantity!

 

[jrkitching]

Also, tasting antifreeze is a very bad idea.

Which is why you should also dispose of waste antifreeze responsibly.

The sweet smell & taste is attractive to wildlife; unfortunately it is just as lethal to them if they ingest it.

Back in '85, it used to be recycled by the Austrian wine industry:

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[306maxi]

If you're just dipping your finger in and licking then it's not going to make you blind or kill you, but having tasted a drop of antifreeze a while back it tastes like absolute **** because of the bitterants used to stop wildlife and people from drinking it. I was under the impression that most antifreeze contained bitterants?

 

[lljkk]

I didn't taste it guys, please don't think that!! I just smelled the lids, and one lid smelled distinctly sweet. The lid where water goes smelled... acrid? I should think that's the right word.

Thanks!

 

[lljkk]

This is helpful, more pictures!

Now, anyone still reading? else I will keep googling.... How important is it to get coolant changed regularly or can I just keep topping up for yrs & not worry about it? 500 is due for brake fluid change soon so wouldn't be too much hassle to get them done together, just thinking long term.

 

[frupi]

Coolant is not something that needs changing 'regularly' or indeed frequently. Coolant when added to the system at factory build, should be good for at least 5 years. The problem arises when the cooling system leaks coolant and this could be for differing reasons such as the waterpump leaking or the radiator leaking or indeed other hoses or connections carrying coolant that may be split etc. I would suggest that if you are topping up on a frequent basis, something isn't quite right. I run my own cars for thousands of miles without ever having to top up. Indeed, I've just recently had the cambelt and waterpump replaced on my other car and it was discovered during the change that the waterpump was 'weeping' coolant. That in itself can lead to destruction of the rubber cambelt if it drips onto it. That then can cause the cambelt to 'shred' break and subsequently do serious damage to engine components. That is obviously a worse case scenario, but it happens and people lose engines because of it. As I've mentioned in a previous post, it is always wise to fully replace coolant with that specified by the manufacturer at a cambelt and waterpump change. Coolant is 'long life' not 'for life'!

 

[lljkk]

Thanks, I've finally found some similar info so what you wrote makes sense.
I've written 5 yrs in the Spec book so I will remember in future.
Er, this is first time I've checked coolant in 18 months so can't say it's been topped up frequently, lol.
It's still 1+ inch above the min. line so I've not blown anything yet.
Ooh, and from just the right angle I can see it is red fluid (but only from that head tilted angle).
I'm on a steep learning curve, but I'm getting there.

 

[UFI]

The recommended coolant interval is 2years/ 60,000km.

You can buy 3year/ 100,000km coolant which I always use and change every three years.

You can get 5/150,000km coolants (these are red/pink in colour) but GM is the subject of a class action in the US over problems with the extended interval. The careful about switching green coolant to pink as the two react and turn to sludge. You have to make sure you get 100% of the old stuff out first.

VW have a lot of optimistic service requirements in their manuals such as their coolant NEVER needing changing.

Coolant is cheap and easy to change, so why risk a wrecked water pump, radiator or head gasket?

 

[frupi]

The recommended coolant interval is 2years/ 60,000km.

And there's the key word, 'recommended'. In the real world, very few owners who keep their cars for years will ever bother to flush/replace the coolant in their vehicle. Generally only something that happens when the radiator bursts or as mentioned before, when the cambelt/waterpump is changed. Our Haynes Manual, which we bought for the POP, interestingly states that coolant should be changed at 24,000 miles (38,624 km) or 2 years.

You mention about GM, well yes, I've heard about what you are talking about, but the coolant was flushed out on my Saab at 4 years and the Fiat independent that did the job didn't report any abnormal issue with it, just the fact that the waterpump was at the point of failing - but this is a completely separate issue, as the waterpumps on these vehicles (Fiat/Alfa, Saab and Vauxhall with the same engine), were apparently known for premature failure and subsequently the pump itself was revised in 2009. My car was built in 2008, so hence the problematic waterpump. I will say though, that now that particular job (along with the cambelt and tensioners) has been done, the coolant won't be changed for another 4 years, well, 3.5 years now as it was done a few months back.

Remembering back to our ownership of the POP, no one, including the Fiat dealers I spoke to at the time or the Fiat independent specialist who serviced our old POP at the second service, ever mentioned about changing the coolant at the 2 year point. I would be interested to hear from any 500 owners who have recently had their vehicle serviced, whether this was done?

 

[UFI]

Our Haynes Manual, which we bought for the POP, interestingly states that coolant should be changed at 24,000 miles (38,624 km) or 2 years.

For the sake of $15 and an hour of your time, why wouldn't you?

The manufacturers really don't want your car to last too long past warranty. 160,000km would be plenty. This coupled with keeping service costs for fleet markets low means service intervals are being stretched with every new generation. VW intervals for coolant, P/S, and gearbox/trans fluids are NEVER. Never mind wheel bearings and ball joints that are now sealed for 'life' across all makes (I think Wranglers and Defenders still have grease fitting on their ball joints).

Rust issues aside, every car should go 300,000+km, at which rate the average person would only buy two cars in a lifetime. I even had one Mazda on it's original clutch at those kms.

 

[jrkitching]

I would be interested to hear from any 500 owners who have recently had their vehicle serviced, whether this was done?

I've serviced my own cars from new and change the coolant every two years.

Folks buying prereg cars should bear in mind that coolant and hydraulic fluid life starts from the date the car was manufactured, not the date you bought it; something to think about if the car has been standing for any length of time prior to sale.

You can buy 5l of OAT concentrate for under £25, and that will suffice for two changes; IMO it's false economy not to change it regularly.

The same goes for brake and clutch fluid; you can change both yourself for under a fiver.

 

[frupi]

For the sake of $15 and an hour of your time, why wouldn't you?

Because, with the greatest of respect, changing the coolant isn't on most folks top agenda when it comes to maintenance. Most people won't have the same maintenance ideology as you or I. I count myself as one of those who over services my vehicles, but there are just certain things you weigh up and make informed decisions on. And also, if the vehicle manufactuers aren't pushing it as a maintenance option/requirement, then who is going to do it? Most car owners simply don't relish the idea of any form of vehicle maintenance that involves the use of tools and getting down and dirty.

I apply this across other stuff like brake fluid, 2 years? Come on! Too soon imvho, especially for normal road cars. If I were to apply that logic to our own TA for instance, the car is by build date, now two years old. The brake fluid irrespective of the fact that it has only been 'in use' for the last year, is still subject to environmental conditions and this can easily be determined by the use of a decent brake fluid tester. But of course Fiat stipulate a brake fluid change at 2 years for warranty purposes, but our own car for instance by warranty, won't have it replaced until next July, when it will be three years old, so that just makes a mockery of the schedule imho.

Same with aircon. I now know it is wise to have the system serviced at least bi-annually, condenser vacuumed, leak tested and refilled with PAG oil and refrigerant, costs about 50 quid, but again, most won't bother and the dealerships won't do it either unless you specifically ask them too.

 

[frupi]

I've serviced my own cars from new and change the coolant every two years.

But again jr, back to the real world, most owners won't bother.

Folks buying prereg cars should bear in mind that coolant and hydraulic fluid life starts from the date the car was manufactured, not the date you bought it; something to think about if the car has been standing for any length of time prior to sale.

Absolutely aware of this fact, but not something that apparently bothers the car manufacturers, otherwise they would have some sort of addtional requirements in relation to warranty and cars sold as pre-reg. And again, coolant presence/quantity can be assessed using appropriate testing kits.

You can buy 5l of OAT concentrate for under £25, and that will suffice for two changes; IMO it's false economy not to change it regularly.

I bought 5 litres of GM long life coolant for my Saab for £18 from my local Vauxhall dealership which the Fiat independent used during my cambelt and waterpump change, still got about 2 litres of it left.

The same goes for brake and clutch fluid; you can change both yourself for under a fiver.

I'd bet that the average Joe in the street isn't going to do this. And yes, you are absolutely right, a litre of brake fluid costs just a fiver, but whether most people have the competency to do the job themselves is another matter, and believe me, that isn't being disrespectful to the masses. If you don't have the basic tools or the experience or self confidence to do the job, you aren't going to do it.

 

[jrkitching]

Most people won't have the same maintenance ideology as you or I.

There's a trade off between what you spend on maintenance and what you spend on repairs. The economics depend both on who's doing the maintenance and how long you plan to keep the car.

Changing fluids regularly is all about preventing corrosion; two yearly fluid changes may mean the difference between replacing a radiator or caliper after 10 years, or having it last the life of the car. The economics make sense if you service it yourself and keep it for life; they don't make sense if you pay someone else to service it and sell within the first few years.

 

[jrkitching]

And yes, you are absolutely right, a litre of brake fluid costs just a fiver, but whether most people have the competency to do the job themselves is another matter, and believe me, that isn't being disrespectful to the masses. If you don't have the basic tools or the experience or self confidence to do the job, you aren't going to do it.

Absolutely agree; the economics are very different at main dealer service rates.

Spending £5 to change the brake fluid every couple of years is a good investment; spending £100 (and I've seen main dealers quote this ) probably isn't. Avoiding a £100 repair in 6-8 years time won't save you anything if you've sold the car in year 4.

IMO manufacturers could do much more to make it easier for owners to service their cars. The 500 pollen filter is a good example of a simple job made difficult through c**p design.

I've just serviced the vac'. Took less that two minutes to change three filters, no tools required.

 

[frupi]

Absolutely agree; the economics are very different at main dealer service rates.

Spending £5 to change the brake fluid every couple of years is a good investment; spending £100 (and I've seen main dealers quote this ) probably isn't.

And hence the reason why the Fiat indpendent I used charged just £25 to do the brake fluid change on our old POP. For a garage, it is a 30 minute job, so the 20 quid labour charge is worth it compared to the hassle of messing about on the drive. I used a local Saab indy to change the brake fluid on my 9-3 and he only charged me 40 quid. That saved me a helluva lot of hassle doing it myself and to be honest, giving decent local garages your cash keeps people in jobs. And for what it's worth, even he told me that 4 years between changes is adequate for normal road use, so something tells me that the 2 yearly changes required or recommended by certain manufacturers, is being just a bit cautious.

 

[frupi]

IMO manufacturers could do much more to make it easier for owners to service their cars. The 500 pollen filter is a good example of a simple job made difficult through c**p design. I've just serviced the vac'. Took less that two minutes to change three filters, no tools required.

Couldn't agree more. Changing the pollen filter on a right hand drive 500 is an absolute pain in the you know whats, whereas I can change the pollen filter on my 9-3 in approximately 2 minutes 30 seconds!

 

[Mila]

Where is the pollen filter located? I might need to clean it. This is for a rhd australian pop.

I know I'm in for a bad time... lol