Technical What’s the best option

[KungFooPanda]

Hi

I’ve purchased a Panda ?hp and I want to change the rear springs and shock absorbers. Thought while I do that, I’d clean and rust proof the axle. I’m not interested in lowering the back end or using 500 springs. Just wanna buy aftermarket stuff. What did you use to clean and Maintain these axles and what shocks and springs did you use.

Any help would be much appreciated

Cheers

?

 

[Ouroboros]

Por 15 is really good.

 

[KungFooPanda]

Por 15 is really good.

Never heard of POR 15 until I joined this forum. Will do a google search to find out where I can get it from. ???

 

[dac69er]

I wouldn't even consider trying to do it until the better weather unless it's off the road and in a nice dry garage or similar.

You want the metal to be completely dry before sealing it up.

 

[DaveMcT]

If you have another car to use get it shot blasted and hot dip galvanised. Then it wont need any other sort of paint - ever. But you will need to press out the pivot bushes as they wont handle the heat. You will also have to protect the bush mounting holes or struggle to shift the excess zinc. The galvanisers will know what to do.

A very good second best is zinc hot metal spray. Cost is about £80 all done. But it's not smooth finished so really needs paint over the top. With etch primer, normal primer and paint you are looking at another £20 plus the hassle.

Get the contractor to cover sensitive areas (e.g. the pivot bushes) with blast tape. The factory leaves the the wheel spindle mount in bare metal so they rust A LOT. I had mine cleaned and coated with precision ground areas and threads protected under blast tape. Rub down areas like the wheel spindle mounting surfaces with coarse wet/dry paper to leave a smooth face.

I used HEL braided hoses from the chassis brake pipe all the way to the caliper. Their female flare is free turning so you can use a banjo fitting at the caliper. Get HEL to fit protection four barrel sleeves. Then you can zip tie or P clip clip the hose to the swing arm with no worries of it rubbing.

When you undo the axle simply cut the OEM hoses and clamp the end to prevent fluid loss. The flare nuts will need heat to shift the grip of corrosion. A chef's gas torch (with heat protection for the chassis) is more than enough. It only has to soften the plastic coating on the metal pipe end. Protect with anti corrosion grease when done. ACF50 grease is good.

I used Fiat 500 (1.2 models) road springs with rubber seats on both ends (normal use has them only at the top). This preserves the ride height but gives a better ride. I still have the OEM dampers but intend to replace with the same.

 

[Ouroboros]

Have a look for J Leno's garage demo Por 15.

 

[DaveMcT]

Have a look for J Leno's garage demo Por 15.

POR15 is not UV stable so needs to be over-painted, but it is THE go-to product for rusty metal protection. Used and loved by classic car restoration people. It's not cheap and they recommend a rust conversion process before the paint is applied. Not easy for a whole rear axle.

Metal spraying my axle probably cost about the same and the zinc will stop dead any specks of rust before they can spread.

The guys who did mine recommended an epoxy primer over the top, but to be fair they do work with the Brixham fishing fleet. Painting over zinc is a pain, so I went with an etch primer, ordinary primer and a satin black smooth Hammerite finish. It covers well so more economical than plain acrylics.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Me? I just wire brush the axle and then Waxoil the lot, paying particular attention to the spring cups.
Once a year maintenance. Whole axle as good as new, every year.

 

[DaveMcT]

Getting my face (and eyes) full of crap while working under cars is not my idea of fun so anything to avoid annual jobs like that works for me.

£80 job done (ok, £100 with paint) was a no-brainer as it will never need doing again. Hot dipped would have been even better as no paint needed - ever.

 

[HP]

...£80 job done (ok, £100 with paint)...

Plus how many hours labour, including the info you mentioned about bushes, protecting ends/voids, transporting a beam, having somewhere to keep the car on stands, having to have another form of transport while it's being done etc.? Only really an option for the DIY guy with plenty of time, tools and space.

Unless you're keeping the car for 15 years, the Waxoyl option isn't a bad one. You have used the word 'overkill' elsewhere

 

[DaveMcT]

Plus how many hours labour, including the info you mentioned about bushes, protecting ends/voids, transporting a beam, having somewhere to keep the car on stands, having to have another form of transport while it's being done etc.? Only really an option for the DIY guy with plenty of time, tools and space.

Unless you're keeping the car for 15 years, the Waxoyl option isn't a bad one. You have used the word 'overkill' elsewhere

A Waxoyl job means jacking up the car and supporting on stands. The springs and shocks have to come off so the axle can be drooped down. Three easy axle bolts and brake hoses each side removes the whole axle.

I completely agree the metal spray option finish is overkill but the cost is low and the axle is easy to remove so the hours used were no so far above doing a thorough clean and Waxoyl. It's not magic stuff so has to be scrubbed into the metal. Any flaking rust (I had a fair bit) has to be scraped off. Sooner or later you'll resort to angle grinder misery. Waxoyl drips and rust debris also makes a horrible mess on any concrete or tarmac surface.

Been there. Done that. No thanks.

Protecting the areas not to be blasted/metal sprayed is done by the contractor and while the job does need another vehicle how many people really don't have that option? Clearly those that don't will be stuck with the messy option. Been there as well.

I also had the chance to properly check the brake lines and replaced the chassis to caliper section with a single braided hose on each side. I had corrosion at the metal flare nuts. Not bad enough to need replacing but they needed to be loosened, cleaned and protected. Access is a nightmare with axle in place so that was another job made a lot easier.

 

[DaveMcT]

I would also like to know what suspension is available that preserves the standard 100HP ride height. Right now I'm looking at 500 springs with standard Fiat 100HP suspension units.

Something aftermarket would be better (Koni maybe) but everything I can find is lowered and with even harder springs?

 

[Sweetsixteen]

My Panda is sufficiently high off the ground that I can easily clean and Waxoil the axle, the brake lines and connections, and the general underside of the car without any jacking or raising needed.

I have done this for years, usually just before winter, and the biggest hiccup is remembering to take my Waxoil can and the dedicated Waxoil gun indoors the night before. Lying on a piece of old carpet on my garage floor for the 15 minutes the job takes is no real hardship.

One gallon of Waxoil, original cost £15, has so far lasted me several years.
The results - never an Mot failure for rusted brake lines, and a rear beam axle better protected than new, speak for themselves.

My Panda is probably worth around £1k, so it makes no sense to me to spend relatively large sums on it, or to put it off the road any more than necessary just to do a simple maintenance job. There are plenty of cheap good ones about when this one finally goes to its grave.

Each to his own.

 

[DaveMcT]

The big difference is you do your car every year. The closest my car ever got to a coat of waxoyl was being parked outside Halfords.

My wife's Panda axle was so bad (though still had an MOT), I swapped it out for a 2015 500 axle and got the benefits of better suspension into the bargain. That was painted before fitting and will get rust proofed every year. Which as you say is an easy job on a clean axle.