What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

[bugsymike]

What a load of nonsense, like you don't have a salty coastline in England for Wales.

In fairness even many years ago we found due the the colder Winters and more salt on the roads there was more rust in cars from "up North", the only comparison down here is as you say salty coast lines. We had a customer who owned a beach shop by the pier and used to park his car there all the time, he could ruin a car in two years.
Another one was Motorbility ones where the old dears used to park on the sea front in the Winter with the spray blasting over them!
I have noticed the extra rust on brakes and suspension etc. on photos on Forum from North of the Border in comparison with similar age vehicles down our way. Even at auction cars seem to fetch higher prices down here, although I have yet to buy a decent vehicle from Cornwall, it is as though they get every inch out of them before selling, a bit like farmers.

 

[portland_bill]

Growing up on Portland, stuck out into the sea, overnight condensation on vehicles was actually salty. You could watch the car rust daily. We lived quite close to the centre of the island, up on top, so as far from the sea as was possible. In the mornings, we didn't wipe the condensation off the windows, we threw a bucket of water over the whole car.
Rarely saw snow though, and rarely had to scrape ice off the windows.

 

[StevenRB45]

Just to make it live slightly...

It failed it's MOT 4 or 5 year ago on corroded brake pipes..a cursory glance at the sills on both sides reveals water has started penetrating the seam weld and they are starting to separate slightly in places. There is evidence of rust at the base of passenger side rear arch sill end less importantly on the boot lid. Suspension components I saw are universally brown/orange but not heavily pitted.

Under the bonnet there's no paint left on the engine amounts as it's been lifted by corrosion and the ends of the chassis legs also show rust. Most of this appears to be surface corrosion at a glance so probably fine, floor pans are again slightly more orange than i'd like in a car. But white shows rust very very strongly.

Whether it's Scottish car or 12 year old car things...is kinda immaterial it's more trying not spend 6 grand on 2-3 years motoring before the thing needs work major doing.

If it was 3 grand I'd be happy to say crack on but it's not cos that's where the market currently is.

 

[vexorg]

Well, my Citroen is 13 years old, no corrosion warning, lives it's life in west of Scotland, 144k miles.
Micra is coming up to 16 years, no corrosion warnings there either.

Rust isn't an issue on cars I've had unless it's been damaged

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

My unique custom stickers for my fiat 500 pop arrived from temu,

the quality is extremely poor,
but the price was extremely cheap.

I am therefore totally emotionally ambivalent on the matter.

And this fact has caused me to post tales of my lack of feelings towards my stickers here, for all to see..

 

[StevenRB45]

Well, my Citroen is 13 years old, no corrosion warning, lives it's life in west of Scotland, 144k miles.
Micra is coming up to 16 years, no corrosion warnings there either.

Rust isn't an issue on cars I've had unless it's been damaged

Very happy for you...

We're just scrapping an 18 year old car on the basis it's rotted out...in a very similar climate to Scotland it's never been damaged as he's had it from new..

I'm not expecting perfection out of a 12 year old motor but I also don't want to be eyeing up welding in a few years time.

 

[bugsymike]

Very happy for you...

We're just scrapping an 18 year old car on the basis it's rotted out...in a very similar climate to Scotland it's never been damaged as he's had it from new..

I'm not expecting perfection out of a 12 year old motor but I also don't want to be eyeing up welding in a few years time.

I agree about the welding, even if it is just a small patch you know that every subsequent year it will be more if it is a car in everyday use.
It is alright for people to say they have cut all the rust out and fitted new panels etc. on their classic and then dry stored it apart from a few shows and trips, but in the World where you have to use a car everyday and it doesn't get washed and waxed after every trip it can only deteriorate in most areas of the UK.
In the late 70s four of us drove down to Southern France etc. over a couple of weeks, it was the time when a lot of boy racers in UK ran Fords.
Down in the sun it was mainly tuned up Renault 8s. What I found different to the UK was the lack of rust in those thinly metaled cars often with dents that had been there for ages untreated, whereas in garages all over the UK cars were failing Mots and having welding jobs done left right and centre.
Giving manufacturers their due it is far less common these days.
I recall a car advert around then with a brand new model up on the cliffs with spray splashing over it. We always used to say , "That is the bu**er we got!".

 

[StevenRB45]

To give the focus it's due it's never had welding...

But It currently has a bluetooth sill end on the drivers side, the rear subframe looks like it's been used as an anchor and is flaking fairly significant bits and the power steering rack is leaking.

In theory all of this is doable, but in the common theme of the last few years of its life. Next year it would be a front subframe probably...and suspension mounts and the rear sills are looking tatty as well.

Before you know it you're several grand into a car that with 100k on it is pretty much 800 to 1500 quids worth even in the current market.

The end goal is not to be fighting the same fight 3 years down the road. Especially when in the current market you'll have paid through the nose to do so.

 

[portland_bill]

Giving manufacturers their due it is far less common these days.
I recall a car advert around then with a brand new model up on the cliffs with spray splashing over it. We always used to say , "That is the bu**er we got!".

I think Fiat did that with the 131, and later the Ritmo/Strada. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I have a picture of a Lada like that too, but I may be dreaming. (Dreaming about Ladas, there's no hope for me.)

My 18yr old Panda is mercifully rust free so far.

Whilst most manufacturers have done wonders in the rust prevention stakes, Ford seem to haev made it a fine art. The original Ka is prone to terminal rust, but only after it has had a good life. The Mk1 Focus is also one that lasts well, then suddenly its sills dissolve, followed by suspension mounts and floorpans. Ford have got the timing just right, to allow the cars to dissolve, reducing the used car parc, whilst lasting just long enough that no-one complains. Once a Focus sills are gone, the rest will follow very quickly.

 

[bugsymike]

I think Fiat did that with the 131, and later the Ritmo/Strada. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I have a picture of a Lada like that too, but I may be dreaming. (Dreaming about Ladas, there's no hope for me.)

I thought it was a Fiat 131, but given the state of my memory these days I didn't want to upset to many Fiat owners and state it.

 

[vexorg]

Very happy for you...

We're just scrapping an 18 year old car on the basis it's rotted out...in a very similar climate to Scotland it's never been damaged as he's had it from new..

Being happy doesn't change the lack of evidence to say cars from scotland rot quicker than in england.
I mean, how many 18 year old cars do you see on the road in england these days?

 

[StevenRB45]

Being happy doesn't change the lack of evidence to say cars from scotland rot quicker than in england.
I mean, how many 18 year old cars do you see on the road in england these days?

Some however the ones with terminal rust or failures don't tend to be driving around...as that's what survivorship bias tends to do.

But in terms of how it applies to the current situation...we were looking at a car from Scotland it has the makings of a rust issue so I'm wondering if it's worth a punt given it's not a cheap car. It's solid enough now but needs to last at least the same age as the car it's replacing I would say.

 

[bugsymike]

Being happy doesn't change the lack of evidence to say cars from scotland rot quicker than in england.
I mean, how many 18 year old cars do you see on the road in england these days?

Just looked out my window up road 55, 04, 06, I have a 57 Skoda 150k, a 2010 Doblo van 106k, a 2010 Scudo 125k?, a 2012 C3 225K.
By the way the total purchase price of my four vehicles was £2750, all have current Mot.
I remember when my sister was working in London many years ago and I sourced a nice clean Vauxhall for her, the first words her London garage said was "oh, we don't see many cars that old around here!

 

[porta]

I think many arguments on ‘rustability’ are purely subjective and a lot of bias…it’s a bit like ‘my grandads hammer’ or ‘triggers broom’ analogy (that I apply to land rovers)…there are those that will do anything to keep a ‘beloved’ car on the road, or buy a classic…in the seventies, eighties and nineties it was all Ford fanatics, primarily fast fords. If anyone has seen Mathewson on the tv, they buy basket cases of escorts, minis, mgs, just for the chassis plate and reshell them, they’re practically new cars!

 

[AndyRKett]

I mean, how many 18 year old cars do you see on the road in england these days?

yeah… quite a lot round my way, I can drive anywhere and see loads of old 2002 - 2006 cars still on the road, I am quite a lot further south and it tends to be on average a bit warmer leading to less salt being used on the road

 

[AnthonyH]

Isn't the quantity of rain more important than salt?

According to the Met Office the rainiest parts of the UK are concentrated in mountainous regions with Snowdonia, the Lake District and the Scottish Highlands all receiving more than 4 metres of rainfall in a year.

Argyllshire tops the list with a soaking 2,274mm of rain each year and western areas in Scotland hold most of the top 10 spots with most rain.

Generally the further East and South you are, the drier.

 

[porta]

Humidity, relative humidity and condensation are also important factors

 

[StevenRB45]

Salt is the absolute killer, if you look at ships...the ships that operate on the great (fresh water) lakes in America last up to twice as long as those that sail the sea. The great lakes have weather just as bad as the ocean and even freeze solid in winter with snow..but no salt.

Yes corrosion occurs without it...but it absolutely speeds things up a treat.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Salt is the absolute killer, if you look at ships...the ships that operate on the great (fresh water) lakes in America last up to twice as long as those that sail the sea. The great lakes have weather just as bad as the ocean and even freeze solid in winter with snow..but no salt.

Yes corrosion occurs without it...but it absolutely speeds things up a treat.

Andy was commenting above that he sees plenty of 2002 to 2006 cars around him. I'm aware of seeing 2008/2010 onward from time to time but only quite rarely do I notice anything much older. Mind you I've not been concentrating too hard so maybe I'm just missing them. What I really do notice is how many "golden oldies" I see when down in rural Devon where Mrs J's sister lives. She recently bought a Vauxhall Agila automatic (rebadged Suzuki Splash) - she has to have automatics and I was pleased to see it's an "old school" epicyclic with torque converter - for running to the shops so she doesn't need to take her more cumbersome to park Land Rover. The dealer she bought from specialized in small older automatics and I got her to send me pictures of the underneath of the several cars she was considering. All older and all pretty immaculate underneath compared to what I would expect up here at that age. When he found out where I was (Edinburgh) this dealer told her he has several regular customers from up "our way" who buy older cars from him because they can get older cheaper cars in much better condition than if they bought at home.

 

[vexorg]

yeah… quite a lot round my way, I can drive anywhere and see loads of old 2002 - 2006 cars still on the road, I am quite a lot further south and it tends to be on average a bit warmer leading to less salt being used on the road

I travel down on the motorways alot and during commuting it's very rare to see a pre 2010 car now.
(maybe most fiat owners just live is dodgy council schemes )