What's made you grumpy today?

[bugsymike]

Older audi used to have it, I had a 2002 A3 and the button did disable the whole ESP.


Duff rear dampers are fun, not had that in a car for many years, the back end bouncing round corners.

I remember as a youngster I had a well worn £90 1964 MGB Roadster (100+K) which shall I say "I used to flog the t*ts off", went to watch Wiscombe Hill Climb, parked and locked up vehicle then had a bet as to which would stop first, the running on or the bouncing front end.
Learnt my lesson, as shortly after I had to then replace two broken front springs as well as the shock absorbers!
From a distance it looked quite smart, recent white respray and Rostyle wheels, other owners driving past would get near and give a friendly wave, then it would change to reassemble them shaking something off their hands.
Just recalled at the time it was a choice to me of a Mk10 Jaguar for £80 or the MGB, I figured I would get more MPG from the MGB, but in the end my driving style returned 18 MPG from the MGB.
As the same for many of us old wrinkly's most of our cars we had then would be worth a fortune now!

 

[porta]

Ordered a bottom hose for my Jeep Cherokee XJ, paid extra for speedy delivery, took them a week, contacted them, no response but a message from carrier saying ‘your part will be with you 14:00-16:00 tomorrow…sent wrong hose!
At first I thought, hmmm maybe they’ve sent top hose by mistake, no…checked part number on hose and it’s for a jaguar xj.
Contacted them again, nothing
All I’m going to say is, don’t use AutoDoc or their sister company OnlineCarParts
I’m going to sell it as soon, as I get a hose through my local factors, and rely much more on my Panda

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I remember as a youngster I had a well worn £90 1964 MGB Roadster (100+K) which shall I say "I used to flog the t*ts off", went to watch Wiscombe Hill Climb, parked and locked up vehicle then had a bet as to which would stop first, the running on or the bouncing front end.
Learnt my lesson, as shortly after I had to then replace two broken front springs as well as the shock absorbers!
From a distance it looked quite smart, recent white respray and Rostyle wheels, other owners driving past would get near and give a friendly wave, then it would change to reassemble them shaking something off their hands.
Just recalled at the time it was a choice to me of a Mk10 Jaguar for £80 or the MGB, I figured I would get more MPG from the MGB, but in the end my driving style returned 18 MPG from the MGB.
As the same for many of us old wrinkly's most of our cars we had then would be worth a fortune now!

Those lever arm shockers were pretty poor at the best of times, As I now you'll remember, most of the BMC stuff of that era had them from the A30/35 right up to their more prestige stuff like the big Vanden Plas. If you had to brake hard you would sit with the front end bouncing up and down 3 or 4 or more times. I have a vivid memory of an Oxford/Cambridge quite slowly overtaking us in our old Citroen Dyane on a dual carriageway with his N/S front wheel bouncing up and down so much it I could see daylight between it and the road surface! It must have been horrible to drive. Ah, happy carefree days!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Older audi used to have it, I had a 2002 A3 and the button did disable the whole ESP.

Just to clarify


*on modern VAG group cars like the one Jock has and most people are driving these days as per the discussion.


I’m pretty certain back in 2002 an Audi A3 did not have the Systems we have today, usually would just brake a slipping wheel and that was about it.

 

[StevenRB45]

Just to clarify


*on modern VAG group cars like the one Jock has and most people are driving these days as per the discussion.


I’m pretty certain back in 2002 an Audi A3 did not have the Systems we have today, usually would just brake a slipping wheel and that was about it.

I am rather surprised they give no option, I was under the impression it was industry standard.

Not entire deactivation but being able to at least remove traction control for the things like travelling on wet grass where the wheel speeds front to rear won't be standard without the car having a hissy fit would seem sensible. As well as getting it out of snow drifts or mud should you be unlucky.

 

[vexorg]

Might be showing my age when I think a 2002 car is a modern car....

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I am rather surprised they give no option, I was under the impression it was industry standard.

Not entire deactivation but being able to at least remove traction control for the things like travelling on wet grass where the wheel speeds front to rear won't be standard without the car having a hissy fit would seem sensible. As well as getting it out of snow drifts or mud should you be unlucky.

I’m going to have to look at the buttons in front of the gearstick in my car (can’t do it till much later as wife taken it to Work) there might be a button there I’ve never paid any attention to

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Might be showing my age when I think a 2002 car is a modern car....

You’re not the only one, the other day i was following a really lovely condition 2002 Range Rover and admiring it, looked like someone had just given it a coat of polish, and then it struck me it was a 20 year old car.

one of my brothers has a 2002 Porsche Boxster currently in storage but is a low mile car and looks mint….. i also have a niece who was born in 2002 who has her own flat and partner now so I’m often surprised by where the last 20 year went

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I can confirm there is no off button on VAG cars, really if you have an off button for the TCS it never really switches it fully off anyway, just gives it a shot if diazepam to lessen the panic attack

I’m going to have to look at the buttons in front of the gearstick in my car (can’t do it till much later as wife taken it to Work) there might be a button there I’ve never paid any attention to

I am rather surprised they give no option, I was under the impression it was industry standard.

Not entire deactivation but being able to at least remove traction control for the things like travelling on wet grass where the wheel speeds front to rear won't be standard without the car having a hissy fit would seem sensible. As well as getting it out of snow drifts or mud should you be unlucky.

I think I found something. Haven't tried activating anything yet though. It would seem that if you press the "Car" button beside the "infotainment" screen then one of the options that comes up on the touch sensitive screen is "setup" and you can then select a whole host of options. In fact I've been into part of this system because that's how you access the TPMS reset. It would seem others enable the switching off of ESC, ASR, Electronic diff, Placing ESC in "Sport" mode, etc. Apparently if I switch off ASR then Traction control is disabled.

 

[StevenRB45]

ASR and Traction control are the same thing, mines a similarly arcane procedure they don't really want you doing it it's for specific circumstances not track days etc.

@AndyRKett will have a heck of job with his tyre socks if he can't knock it off. My recollection of using them in deep snow is the drag is such that you really don't want it chopping power out every time it slips a little.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

ASR and Traction control are the same thing, mines a similarly arcane procedure they don't really want you doing it it's for specific circumstances not track days etc.

Not technically

The concept of traction control was if a wheel slips while moving off then it will dull the throttle to regain grip.

Then ESP ASR what ever name you want to give it, came along as a part of ABS because the ABS can monitor and brake all 4 wheels as it wants some bright spark decided by braking wheels powered and not powered, it could give some vectoring control in a skid or accident, a bit like skid-steering a tank. Then the got more advanced, then they made in compulsory on call cars in 2011 (in Europe)

I remember in about 2006 watching a demonstration of this fantastic new Electronic stability Control that they were about to start fitting as standard on the then new range rover sport. demonstrated by driving around on ice with normal tires.

'I Believe' and I may be wrong on this, (but I cannot be bothered to go crawling through all the EU directives which are stupidly written)

You can turn traction control off which will prevent the car from cutting power as soon as a wheel slips, but you cannot turn off an electronic stability program which is active at all times and is supposed to minimize accidents (hence it being made compulsory)

Turning TCS off is for people who want the wheels to spin, maybe while racing or on a track where you might want to be able to keep your foot it and not lose engine power wheel braking part way through a corner. But you still might get into trouble while driving at speed and the ESP is supposed to at least try to stop you killing yourself.

Even where there might be a button saying you are able to turn off the ASR or ESP it actually only kills the TCS or is on cars fitted before it became required by law.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Not technically

The concept of traction control was if a wheel slips while moving off then it will dull the throttle to regain grip.

Then ESP ASR what ever name you want to give it, came along as a part of ABS because the ABS can monitor and brake all 4 wheels as it wants some bright spark decided by braking wheels powered and not powered, it could give some vectoring control in a skid or accident, a bit like skid-steering a tank. Then the got more advanced, then they made in compulsory on call cars in 2011 (in Europe)

I remember in about 2006 watching a demonstration of this fantastic new Electronic stability Control that they were about to start fitting as standard on the then new range rover sport. demonstrated by driving around on ice with normal tires.

'I Believe' and I may be wrong on this, (but I cannot be bothered to go crawling through all the EU directives which are stupidly written)

You can turn traction control off which will prevent the car from cutting power as soon as a wheel slips, but you cannot turn off an electronic stability program which is active at all times and is supposed to minimize accidents (hence it being made compulsory)

Turning TCS off is for people who want the wheels to spin, maybe while racing or on a track where you might want to be able to keep your foot it and not lose engine power wheel braking part way through a corner. But you still might get into trouble while driving at speed and the ESP is supposed to at least try to stop you killing yourself.

Even where there might be a button saying you are able to turn off the ASR or ESP it actually only kills the TCS or is on cars fitted before it became required by law.

Thanks again Andy. This is all very interesting stuff but actually, apart from doing something like what I was trying to do, I can't think why I'd need to turn any of it off in normal day to day driving so I'm quite happy to just leave it to do it's thing. Thanks for the enlightenment though I do very much enjoy reading this sort of stuff. Useful too to know what the implication is if one of the dashboard lights illuminates.

 

[StevenRB45]

Thanks again Andy. This is all very interesting stuff but actually, apart from doing something like what I was trying to do, I can't think why I'd need to turn any of it off in normal day to day driving so I'm quite happy to just leave it to do it's thing. Thanks for the enlightenment though I do very much enjoy reading this sort of stuff. Useful too to know what the implication is if one of the dashboard lights illuminates.

Indeed, I have been on forums where they would swear blind turning this stuff off made the car faster/smoother etc.

If you don't drive like an absolute flute it's rare you'll ever see intervention except on snow and ice or if you're doing something a little odd (eg jacking the car up and running it in the air...). Most systems I've driven have been fairly easy going unless you were lighting tyres or going sideways they let you get on with it so even going quickly the only time it intervenes would be if you'd gone beyond the limit.

Had a thought the other day...there must be a way to kill it otherwise it'd be impossible to rolling road a car.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I can't think why I'd need to turn any of it off in normal day to day driving so I'm quite happy to just leave it to do it's thing.

I’m very much the same…. In fact I may look a complete tit later when my wife gets back and I look and find there is a button to turn it off…. It’s not like I’ve had the car 7 years now.

I found it interesting you talking about the set up of the radio in your car. Mine is a 2015 with very much modern technology but the golf cabriolet is based on the mk6 which came out in 2008 and was discontinued in 2012.

Therefore it is a bit of a weird mix of technology, for example I have a radio with at that time the lastest carplay and android auto, yet an equivalent mk7 would have had radar cruise control which I didn’t get presumably because the front of the car would need redesigning to fit the appropriate sensors.

I noted a lot of Vag group cars in 2015 had settings for the car that could be changed through the radio but all the settings on mine are changes with the steering wheel controls via the screen in between the speedo and Rev counter. On the very last 2016 cabriolets they made this screen colour and updated the electronics a little more but I think these cars only sold in Europe ad I’ve never seen one here.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

If you don't drive like an absolute flute it's rare you'll ever see intervention except on snow and ice or if you're doing something a little odd

What does your Citroen do if you are a little spirited with driving? I know when I’ve been running late for work in the past on the occasional winter’s morning there is a particular corner near me that if you’re heavy on the throttle the little light on the dash will flash but other than that you don’t seem to get any noticeable feed back at all in the way the car responds so what ever it is doing is very subtle

 

[StevenRB45]

What does your Citroen do if you are a little spirited with driving? I know when I’ve been running late for work in the past on the occasional winter’s morning there is a particular corner near me that if you’re heavy on the throttle the little light on the dash will flash but other than that you don’t seem to get any noticeable feed back at all in the way the car responds so what ever it is doing is very subtle

Very little, until you really annoy it and then it's got the sublety of a sledgehammer.

You can get it a bit annoyed if you hit boost on a greasy surface but you've probably got about a second or so until it intervenes normally it's a case of I've registered the wheels are spinning and backed off before it does.

It's very much by the time it intervenes it's gonna be quite a strong intervention, I've had mild drifts in the thing on mud etc and it didn't wake up. We're only talking a small wobble rather than arm twirling opposite lock but it's quite laissez-faire.

In general if the chassis is basically stable and you're not driving like a moron there's not really much for it to do. The Mazda one was decorative, the one on the Citroën occasionally gets involved but I've done quite a bit of stupid stuff over the years and it's not been concerned..for example having a bit of fun with a BMW 2 Series over the moors..in the rain..didn't see the light once as it's only if you start deviating from the expected trajectory for the steering angle or spinning/locking wheels it starts getting interested.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

@StevenRB45 So turns out I am a Tit, there is a button on the panel in front of the gear stick which is to turn off the TCS. This isn't actually visable from how I am positioned when driving. Then again I did know it was there just forgot about it, probably only ever touched it once about 7 years ago when I got the car.

Looking in the manual There is about 2 pages dedicated to all the various magical brake assist programs that go on behind the scenes, but the button only turns off the Traction control.

Interestingly and possibly what @Pugglt Auld Jock found, it states that all 4 wheel have to be fitted with the same tires, if not any unexpected difference in the rolling circumference of the tires will result in the engine power being cut. I would imagine this is what was triggered by driving the front wheels off the ground with stationary back wheels it saw the difference in the rotation of the tires and cut the engine power.

 

[StevenRB45]

@StevenRB45 So turns out I am a Tit, there is a button on the panel in front of the gear stick which is to turn off the TCS. This isn't actually visable from how I am positioned when driving. Then again I did know it was there just forgot about it, probably only ever touched it once about 7 years ago when I got the car.

Looking in the manual There is about 2 pages dedicated to all the various magical brake assist programs that go on behind the scenes, but the button only turns off the Traction control.

Interestingly and possibly what @Pugglt Auld Jock found, it states that all 4 wheel have to be fitted with the same tires, if not any unexpected difference in the rolling circumference of the tires will result in the engine power being cut. I would imagine this is what was triggered by driving the front wheels off the ground with stationary back wheels it saw the difference in the rotation of the tires and cut the engine power.

To be fair I'm only aware of half of this stuff because I thought I better go through and have a look when it became clear the car was going to be more permanent than originally planned.

There's probably getting on for 100s of user adjustable things hidden in the touchscreen on a modern car that your average owner never touches.

"Have you considered your stereo center point sir? Do you want it focused on the driver or are you of a more socialist bent and believe all passengers should have a similar experience? Do you want your gauges to sweep when you first start up?" How long would sir like the lights to stay on after he's locked your car at night?" "How aggressive do you want your climate control to be?" "What colour do you want the background of the touchscreen to be?" "Would you like to use a photo as the background of the touchscreen?"..

Er yeah mate...no. I suspect they use the same software with different skins from the C3 up to Peugeot 508 and the DS branded cars but it's just amusing to see all that in a supermini.


Rolling circumference difference could get interesting with a space saver fitted presumably it can recognise that.

 

[bugsymike]

To be fair I'm only aware of half of this stuff because I thought I better go through and have a look when it became clear the car was going to be more permanent than originally planned.

There's probably getting on for 100s of user adjustable things hidden in the touchscreen on a modern car that your average owner never touches.

"Have you considered your stereo center point sir? Do you want it focused on the driver or are you of a more socialist bent and believe all passengers should have a similar experience? Do you want your gauges to sweep when you first start up?" How long would sir like the lights to stay on after he's locked your car at night?" "How aggressive do you want your climate control to be?" "What colour do you want the background of the touchscreen to be?" "Would you like to use a photo as the background of the touchscreen?"..

Er yeah mate...no. I suspect they use the same software with different skins from the C3 up to Peugeot 508 and the DS branded cars but it's just amusing to see all that in a supermini.


Rolling circumference difference could get interesting with a space saver fitted presumably it can recognise that.

In the past we had customers buy a new car then come to us in the workshop for help as the salesman hadn't even told them where the light switches were as they were too busy counting their commission.

 

[StevenRB45]

In the past we had customers buy a new car then come to us in the workshop for help as the salesman hadn't even told them where the light switches were as they were too busy counting their commission.

A friend of mine had a K11 Micra..in common with many Japanese cars there's nothing stopping you leaving the the stalk in the main beam position as it's not click to toggle on/off, you push it forward then pull it back to deactivate.

He'd accidentally knocked it forward so whenever he turned the headlamps on it was main beam. Realising this was blinding everyone he would drive round in the dark on side lights thinking this was dipped beam and only put the headlights on on unlit stretches. He complained for some time the dipped beam was crap...he was driving round on 1 5w sidelight bulb (the other had popped). Mockery may have followed... although not as bad as girl from college who took her car to the garage 3 times with similar finger trouble.

But..to be fair in the case of my wife who has no interest in the automotive..there is one function that matters. "Auto"...also having a car with rear DRLs so she's not one of these running round in fog with no lights on the rear.. When she had her Micra she'd get 70% of the way back and only realise she'd not switched the lights on when she got to the unlit stretch out to ours but in her defence she was finishing work at 3am.