What Shocked You Today

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What Shocked You Today

porta

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Oct 11, 2011
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I thought Giugiaro was originally proposing that basic design for the Seicento?
Wehn the cinq was launched, but not in full production, Fiat sent a preproduction to all the design houses to ‘experiment’ with…there were the usual weird ones, including a tan dam seating arrangement with a bike mounted where the f&r passenger would be…and a design that would turn into the matiz..I have a picture somewhere that comes from the ‘Fiat World’ magazine of the time, but we used to get postcard/flyer type promo exerts for the showroom
 
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AndyRKett

AndyRKett

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May 23, 2011
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Don't get me wrong something fast is fun, but without getting stopped all the time apart from race days where can you use all the power your extra money paid for?
Manufacturers have to sell cars that meet the emission laws Governments require.
However electric power steering central locking electric windows, can bus systems telling the ECU to put up warning lights to tell you a bulb has blown or that your tyre pressures are getting low, even things like air con, in the past it was only American cars that had that, now it seems to almost come standard.
So basically it is car salesmen telling the customer what they must expect on a new vehicle.
I am just "teed off" after spending 4 hours on my back taking the alternator off my Citroen C3 1.Diesel, DPF off, Aircon pump off, half the intercooler piping, o/s/f wheel off, auxillary belt tensioner off, numerous wires, then four bolts to hold a alternator on, soldered new brushes in but I am going to get the auto electrician to test it as I don't want to have to repeat the exercise. in case the regulator is at fault , which if I need to fit that cost more than I used to pay for a brand new alternator before they had to make them so big to power all the high amperage stuff used on modern cars.
The same job in the past would have taken around thirty minutes on most cars!
You use the extra power to lug all the extra weight around. I few years back I bought a very cheap range rover leather interior (to sell on for a profit) the drivers seat weighed nearly as much as me with all the motors and electronic gubbins you need those extra Hp.
Really though cars being a pain in the arse to work on isn’t a new thing, take the original mini or the fiat 500 these “small cars were just as bad, it’s just we scaled them up. There are a lot of plus sides to new cars as well, no chokes, not balancing carbs, no cork oil seals leaking everywhere within three seconds of installation.
Whiny diffs on rwd salons. Electrics that while not warning you the bulb was gone didn’t matter because the electrics just flat out didn’t work despite everything having spade connectors that would carry 200amps (they still had terrible connections) 5 years old or 100,000 miles and it was off to the scrap yard.
I can go on
Cylinder heads that crack, water pumps that barely moved any coolant causing cars to over heat all the time, rust in coolant systems causing radiators to clog all the time.
Servo assisted brakes that wouldn’t servo assist. Radios with the clunky button that would ping the needle across the gauge to pick up your mw channel.
Old cars were absolutely terrible. Fun… but terrible.
 

vexorg

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Aug 14, 2021
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750
Nothing wrong with the Matiz, lol!
I had a new i10 as a hire car recently, it used to be the hyundai version of the matiz, and wow, it has all the toys in there that you'd expect to find in a more top of the range car.
 

s130

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The same job in the past would have taken around thirty minutes on most cars!
About there or there abouts. Double the time as you get to OAP status :)

It really has got very silly IMHO with modern cars and it is going to get worse. When the EU edict for fully intergrated encrypted CAN-Bus then much of what the DIY car mechanic can do will be beyond reach. Sure you will be able to do some spannering but the computer will so "NO" and you will have to go to a garage. I can see even simple things like ABS wheel sensors and other sensors being needed to be programmed into the car. Probably a mixture of calibration (like coding batteries and fuel injectors) but also a parts theft deterant.

A good new non electric car could be got for £15K or less. Now we are talking roughly twice that at £30K. That is a huge increase in motoring cost almost overnight.

As we get older, retired and no longer working I can see more people ditching their cars in favour of motability scooters (with shopping trailer :) or :devilish:), using home shopping (ASDA, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons, etc.), taxis and occasionally hire cars.

Future costs: Average cheap electric car @ £30k, Road Tax @ £300, Insurance @ £300, Servicing/MOT @ £300, incidentals @ £100. Over 8 years this works out at:

Average Yearly Cost: (30k - £3k trade-in)/8 + £300 + £300 +£300 + £100 = £4,375 per year (excluding inflation)

If you have a good old classic car / old school tech then one has to hang onto it but even that is proving to be more difficult these days. We could end up like Japan. Japan has (well did have) a good export trade in used cars because their MOTs would fail cars just a few years old to get them off the road and drive new sales!

Are we car fanatics doomed especially after working life and in retirement?
 
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I'm towards the Bugsy side of the middle position. I suppose we do need the emissions stuff and that means electronics to control it. Electronic ignition and control of fueling certainly makes for a nice drive and "saves the planet" as long as it works as intended. ABS brakes have, on the whole, also been a good thing as have air bags and seat belts. Most of the rest I could do without. Autonomous braking. Collision avoidance. Hill hold. lane departure. The iniquitous, and in my opinion, dangerously lethal introduction of touch screens to control stuff like the radio and air con and -----. I could go on and on but I'm sure you've got my drift by now.

On the subject of excessively powerful engines. I think a compulsory psychological assessment followed by a special series of lessons and separate driving test with an endorsement then on your license should be compulsory before you can get into anything with more than a certain performance envelope. It shouldn't be linked only to engine power as that would not take into account vehicle weight or chassis setup but to the overall performance of the vehicle and thus it's inherent latent potential to allow an "idiot" to get into serious trouble with it. I'm living in cloud cuckoo land though - Never going to happen.
 

vexorg

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We could end up like Japan. Japan has (well did have) a good export trade in used cars because their MOTs would fail cars just a few years old to get them off the road and drive new sales!
I had read that japan's issue was that all cars must meet the same modern standards, hence unfeasible for some older cars to pass the MOT.
 
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AndyRKett

AndyRKett

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On the subject of excessively powerful engines. I think a compulsory psychological assessment followed by a special series of lessons and separate driving test with an endorsement then on your license should be compulsory before you can get into anything with more than a certain performance envelope. It shouldn't be linked only to engine power as that would not take into account vehicle weight or chassis setup but to the overall performance of the vehicle and thus it's inherent latent potential to allow an "idiot" to get into serious trouble with it. I'm living in cloud cuckoo land though - Never going to happen.
They were talking about this some 20+ years ago when I took my test, back then it was that people would be limited to cars no more than 1500cc (back when 1500cc was a cut off for higher or lower rate car tax, pre 2001 emissions based taxing)

It never came to anything, I don't think it ever will. You have to consider that there is someone in government making a measured decision that the costs of policing and enacting any such restriction would far outweigh the benefits. Over those probably 25 years cars have gotten infinitely more safe and road injuries and fatalities have dropped nearly year on year.

Insurance companies mop up the costs of any damage done to people or property where no one gets killed, so there is no real incentive for government to legislate on this subject.

In the past they did actually intact a restriction on motorbikes because people where killing themselves left right and center, and you can't really make a motorbike anymore safe than it already is where the only factor in if someone is going to get killed or not is the rider themselves. (bikers I know there are car drivers that cause accidents with bikes, but its the biker who gets killed and experience in avoiding a lot of the idiots on the road also has a big impact on if a biker gets squashed or not and a 17 year old on a 140hp super bike is never a good combination)

If you watch the police programs on TV these days 90% of the driving issues seem to be uninsured, untaxed, unroadworthy vehicles and as a result of lack of responsibility the driver, drives like an idiot, and more often than not it seems they fail a drugs wipe test.


There are plenty of idiots about on the road but and idiot doesn't need a 400hp car to cause absolute carnage.
 
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There are plenty of idiots about on the road but and idiot doesn't need a 400hp car to cause absolute carnage.
Someone on here recently said they drove like everyone else was actively trying to have an accident with them. My brother in law, a retired airline pilot, said the exact same thing to me many years ago and I've never forgotten it. One very noticeable result of this is that I never take off from the traffic lights without checking cross traffic has actually stopped by looking both ways before lifting the clutch. Twice it's saved me from what could have been a very big accident with a red light runner.
 
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AndyRKett

AndyRKett

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