Bit confused. My 2014 Panda Trekking V5 doesn't give the HP but says its output is 62KW which seems to equal 83.1 HP. so I assume I have the 85HP model? The manual states that lubricants for the 0.9 litre 85 HP twin-air turbo is 5W-40 (Fiat 9.55535-S2) but if I look up my model online it says it's a Euro 6 model which is supposed to take 0W-30? So which one is it 0W-40 or 5W-30?
Technical What Oil ?
- Thread starter mikegml
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical What Oil ?
There's been shed loads of comment and advice on the forum about twin air/multi air engine oil and the consensus of opinion seems to be that they are very picky about what oil you use and to use only the actual oil specified by FIAT. I can confidently recommend you ring Shop4parts with your vehicle reg no and vin no for advice.
euroben
Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2012
- Messages
- 192
- Points
- 143
I have the 85HP TA turbo and I use the Selenia 5W40 as specified in my manual. It seems on the later models Fiat changed the oil spec to 0W30 so now recommend that on all models but I’m sticking with the original spec for my engine at the time, rather than what Fiat tinkered with later to meet newer emissions standards for euro 6.
it’s a worry when regulatory compliance trumps engineering optima
I buy the service kit from my local dealer and it depends on who answers the phone one guy would send me 0w30 or if it’s someone else I receive 5w40 so I would agree it doesn’t really matter one or the other
maybe best to consider the grade Fiat engineers originally recommended, before Fiat decided to fudge things up to “meet”*** new EU regs…?
***bearing in mind
1. Fiat’s motivation to keep their huge engine investment viable for a few more years to amortise the cost
2. and if this wouldn’t cause claims within the warranty period why would they be concerned about engines having shorter lives with the thinner grade…?
Rambling7325
Member
I've found 5w-40 to cause absolutely horrible cold starts on my 2015 twinair to the point of misfires. Had the oil replaced immediately for 0w-30. In 2015 the stated oil was 0w-30.
The change in oil spec also seems to coincide (more or less) with the point when they started fitting narrower (than previous) and summer (rather than all season) tyres to the 4x4 Cross TAs. As JayAre hints at, this is more likely in preparation for the introduction of the more realistic WLTP fuel consumption tests (from 2017), where doing anything to reduce cold engine load (thinner oil) and wheel drag (narrower and lower rolling resistance tyres) would help Fiat get a less bad result. We all know how (generally) unachievable the originally predicted mpg figure was for the TwinAir. Even with these changes the TA gives a pretty poor 'real world test' figure in the new WLTP tests compared to its optimistic EU test results.
So, the oil spec that the engine was designed to use (5w40) is probably better for the car than 0W-30 -- unless Fiat changed anything in the engine or ECU programming to counteract the effect of using thinner oil at the same time... did they? Who can tell us?
Incidentally, WLTP was introduced to create a whole world test method so that all makes in all markets were comparable, and replaced the Europe-only test regime previously used (here and across Europe) for fuel consumption comparisons, but where other markets had different systems. Car makers previously had to do multiple testing - WLTP meant only one set of test was needed and the results were supposed to be more comparable to real on the road driving.
I'm pretty sure all TwinAir Pandas were Euro 6 from day one (so that's not the reason for the change)... However, the diesels did change from Euro 5 to Euro 6 around the middle of 2015
So, the oil spec that the engine was designed to use (5w40) is probably better for the car than 0W-30 -- unless Fiat changed anything in the engine or ECU programming to counteract the effect of using thinner oil at the same time... did they? Who can tell us?
Incidentally, WLTP was introduced to create a whole world test method so that all makes in all markets were comparable, and replaced the Europe-only test regime previously used (here and across Europe) for fuel consumption comparisons, but where other markets had different systems. Car makers previously had to do multiple testing - WLTP meant only one set of test was needed and the results were supposed to be more comparable to real on the road driving.
I'm pretty sure all TwinAir Pandas were Euro 6 from day one (so that's not the reason for the change)... However, the diesels did change from Euro 5 to Euro 6 around the middle of 2015
Last edited:
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Yours will use the earlier oil, but The new spec shouldnt cause issues. The 5w40 is cheaper!
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Interesting! I believe the engine map is different to account for differing viscocity at different temperatures, but have no real evidence to support this. I cant see it can not have a revised engine map.
This is the elephant in the room.
In order for the uniair unit to operate correctly, it needs to know the viscosity of the oil. This can't be measured directly; it has to be deduced from the oil temperature, so there is an accurate temperature sensor in the oil circuit to measure this. The system is programmed to calculate an assumed oil viscosity based on this measured temperature. There are links to the system manufacturer's documentation in the various historic threads on the subject for anyone wishing to get a better understanding of how this works.
The programming has to be able to calculate the viscosity of the oil from this temperature; if you put in an oil which has a different viscosity/temperature curve, the calculated value will be wrong and the uniair module won't work correctly.
What no one has been able to say definitively is whether there are differences in the ECU programming depending on which oil the engine has been set up to use, but 0W30 oil has a different viscosity/temperature curve than 5W40; they're not interchangeable in this regard. In the absence of any better information, I'd suggest using only the specific grade of oil that's recommended for the particular year of manufacture of your car.
Swapping 5W40 and 0W30 in a twinair isn't just about emissions - if you use the wrong oil for the engine, it might not run properly. There have been a number of posts reporting rough running which has been fixed by changing to the specific oil recommended for that car.
The jury is still out on whether using the wrong oil can actually damage the uniair module. However, a garage replacement of the module won't leave you much change out of £2000, so perhaps better safe than sorry.
If you have a TA, it's probably false economy to just put in whatever you can buy the most cheaply.
Last edited:
we know from other threads+posts that some Fiat main dealers have seen them as ‘interchangeable’, either due to poor training/ignorance or oversight/negligence
…or the absence of any Fiat technical note on this (which there wouldn’t be if they were)
In the absence of a friendly Fiat dealer prepared to assist on this, do quality independents (eg Small Car Services) have access to all Fiat the technical notes/updates on things like this and has anyone raised this with any of them or are these notes/updates accessible elsewhere?
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
I think one of the issues is the muti air system was not a Fiat invention and I suspect they dont care enough to ever have found out themselves. Its one of those things that people follow the computer instructions.... Thats progress.
They should go the whole hog and put the new engine in the Grand? Panda its a 3 litre single cylinder supercharged turbo with a dualogic twin clutchless gear box and a quadra mass fly wheel made of swiss cheese. Of course It runs on fish oil and needs a service every 150 yards. Not metres mark you. Avoid the topless one with coal fired sunroof. Keep away from children. LOL
I just noticed my avatar photo of the four pandas is along a similar vein. Spot the mistake. Actually they are all there you just cant see one of them.
They should go the whole hog and put the new engine in the Grand? Panda its a 3 litre single cylinder supercharged turbo with a dualogic twin clutchless gear box and a quadra mass fly wheel made of swiss cheese. Of course It runs on fish oil and needs a service every 150 yards. Not metres mark you. Avoid the topless one with coal fired sunroof. Keep away from children. LOL
I just noticed my avatar photo of the four pandas is along a similar vein. Spot the mistake. Actually they are all there you just cant see one of them.
Last edited:
