the gearbox is a bit crap. even the one in my seicento was smoother than the abarth 500. very notchy and sometimes stubborn, especially going into 1st occasionally.
General What are the gearboxes like?
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General What are the gearboxes like?
OP
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Well my one (Panda 100HP) was bad from new, so we can't blame wear on that one. Then there is the other question of why the Fiat ones can feel a bit notchy, but the one on the i10 was perfect. Although having said that, the 500 one was perfect the first day, but notchy on the second day.
OP
OP
Now this is very strange after reading the other posts, but I do kind of agree with you. The gearbox on my Seicento was pretty awful, but my gear changes were very consistent. Although it didn't feel nice, the Seicento didn't feel like there was something wrong with it. I think I probably prefered the gearbox on my Seicento.
I think I will need a long test drive, and maybe test drives with multiple cars before I commit to buying one. Maybe the twin air engine will have a new gearbox that may be better.
OP
OP
I did get some new oil for my gearbox, but I'm not sure whether it has a drain plug, or where it is.
Seriously just give up. He's famous for being far more "advanced" than people like yourself who actually get to working on the oily bits of your car.....
OP
OP
:stupid: What's wrong with what I said?
What I didn't make clear was that it was only notchy when cold on the second day. So it looks like it was dependant on the temperature. It was in the summer though, so I don't know what it would be like in the middle of Winter.
Seriously. How many times do you have to be told that they're the same damn box and linkage?
OP
OP
If you look at my post you'll notice that I was talking about an i10, not a Fiat!
I was starting to think that my gearbox must definately be faulty, but it sounds like others don't like the boxes either. I really don't know whether I want to get another Fiat gearbox.
My gearbox is very different to the one in the 500 that I drove, no doubt about it. I don't doubt that they are the same 'box, but there has definately got to be a quality issue somewhere.
Thumper
New member
It may be your particular Panda hasn't got a very well built gearbox. Having had a few Fiats along with other manufacturers, never had any problem with any gearbox falling apart. Some have been smooth, some not so smooth, some smooth on some days, etc etc etc. But none of them fell apart and I'm just awaiting a 500 and have no worries about its gearbox.
If you're soooo concerned and love the i10 then just get one of those things instead? You're never going to get everyone on this forum to agree or disagree on perceptions of gearbox qualities. Some will love, some will hate, most don't give a toss!! In any event you're going to have to make a decision on a car which is correct for you.
Just get in and drive it, if it falls apart the warranty will cover it (mine did, typical the only Alfa part on the A500 and it was the first thing to become faulty!)
I once read an extreme test drive of a 1960's Volvo Amazon. They did a total of 2,000,000 miles (yes that's 2 million miles) with only one rebuild. That was in the 60's, gearboxes (and cars in general) are 1000% more robust and reliable than cars 40 years ago, so i wouldn't worry too much how a gearbox "feels"
I once read an extreme test drive of a 1960's Volvo Amazon. They did a total of 2,000,000 miles (yes that's 2 million miles) with only one rebuild. That was in the 60's, gearboxes (and cars in general) are 1000% more robust and reliable than cars 40 years ago, so i wouldn't worry too much how a gearbox "feels"
For once I agree. Just drive the damn thing. There are bigger things to think about than whether a gearshift is smooth. Hell all Subaru's have really notchy boxes but look how popular Impreza's were until they got hit with the ugly stick!Just get in and drive it, if it falls apart the warranty will cover it (mine did, typical the only Alfa part on the A500 and it was the first thing to become faulty!)
I once read an extreme test drive of a 1960's Volvo Amazon. They did a total of 2,000,000 miles (yes that's 2 million miles) with only one rebuild. That was in the 60's, gearboxes (and cars in general) are 1000% more robust and reliable than cars 40 years ago, so i wouldn't worry too much how a gearbox "feels"
For what its worth I've had a couple of gearboxes in my 500. The 6 speed it originally came with which I did about 20k miles with. It was notchy certainly. A change of gearbox oil from whatever Fiat paid .5p a litre for when assembling it to Castrol EPX made it much smoother. I did the change at about 5k miles and again twice more before swapping the gearbox.
At about 20k miles I swapped gearboxes. Reason for this was the installation of a new Quaife diff. Luckily I had a brand spanking new 6 speed from a 1.4 GP sitting on the shelf. When we installed this gearbox the selector weights were different. The 500 ones were lighter so I kept them. So the shifting mechanism, as far as I can tell, remained the same. The GP gearbox is much smoother in operation. Far less likely to crunch went selecting reverse. The shift action is much smoother. Maybe the GP's are better built?
At about 20k miles I swapped gearboxes. Reason for this was the installation of a new Quaife diff. Luckily I had a brand spanking new 6 speed from a 1.4 GP sitting on the shelf. When we installed this gearbox the selector weights were different. The 500 ones were lighter so I kept them. So the shifting mechanism, as far as I can tell, remained the same. The GP gearbox is much smoother in operation. Far less likely to crunch went selecting reverse. The shift action is much smoother. Maybe the GP's are better built?
Without thread jacking, do you think it would be possible therefore to fit a 6 speed Abarth Grande Punto gearbox to the A500? If so, how much time/money and effort would it consume!?
Without thread jacking, do you think it would be possible therefore to fit a 6 speed Abarth Grande Punto gearbox to the A500? If so, how much time/money and effort would it consume!?
A similar question has been much on mind of late while I mull over engine upgrade options (super/turbocharging). The concensus view seems to be that the standard 6 speed as fitted to the 500/GP's is not strong enough to cope with the torque of the turbo engine. Plenty of people will tell you this but no one I've spoken to or can find can give me any solid evidence of it. The closest I can come to finding any hard data is talking to a couple of Fiat dealers service people who have fiddled with higher outputs on the 6 speeds and had the diffs go bang.
As far as I can tell any fire series engine should fit any fire series gearbox Fiat or Abarth. I suspect the differences are more to do with the ratios being suitable for specific turbo configurations than anything else but I'm happy to be pointed to evidence that reveals anything to the contrary.
Turbo engines will always tend to rev lower than NA engines so different gearing is of course required.
Thanks, but i meant the 6 speed on the Abarth Punto, (not the Fiat Punto) would that fit the Abarth 500? Most of the guys on the Abarth forum have their Punto's tuned to around 207 BHP with no issues. The Assetto Corse racing Abarth 500's have Abarth Punto gearboxes (and turbo's, hence 200+ BHP) so i guess it can be done.
There would be changes to make like probably driveshafts at the very least.
Whilst I don't dispute that, I've driven enough new cars to comment on this being one of the best ones I've used.
For example, I got a new BMW X1 on Thursday and the gearbox is nowhere near as nice as the Fiat's.
I have to say that it is not a question of ratios in this case. There is a wide range of gear and final gear ratios available for the boxes that would span the requirements of the engines, even diesels. This same box is fitted to panda multijets for example with very tall 4th and 5th gears.
The reason is the torque ratings for each box type with the weight of the vehicle a skewing factor. The boxes get more and more expensive to produce as you go up the range (C514, C510, M20, M32, M40) so this also has a skewing effect in the choice by FIAT in cases where the torque requirements are borderline. Bravos always get best gearbox types due to weight of car and premium price for example compared with lower models with the same engine power outputs.
Here is a link to a page from the company that design and produce the gearboxes, which clearly states the long-term torque maximums. These numbers roughly tally up with FIAT's book values of their cars, with the other factors I mentioned above taken into consideration.
Turbos add so much torque to the equation, that gearboxes fitted to N/A cars almost always will need to "go up a level" in the gearbox department in order to be able to last a long period of time that is expected of modern cars. In reality, they will last for quite a while if driven with some care/skill. In this respect, I would say the driving style is a bigger factor in gearbox longevity than the power output of the engine if the power is a little over the gearbox manufacturer's rated torque figures.
The 6 speed box on the Abarth Punto is an M20/M32 type. The Abarth 500 is a C510 type. Therefore no mounts, drive shafts or gear linkages exist off the shelf that will enable it to all fit. However, I am aware that Trofeo cars do have the M32 box fitted, so perhaps you could secure some shafts, linkages and mounts from one of those on the black market!
Indeed, the Abarth 500 is a good case in point. I've heard many discussions on why it has a "less sporty" 5 speed, when the AGP and the Bravo Sport with the "same" engine has 6 speeds. The reason is nothing more than FIAT can get away with fitting the cheaper and lighter C510 gearbox to the 500 due to its lower power output and relatively low weight. They need to fit an M32 type to the other two for the opposite reasons. The C510 box only comes in 5 speed. The M32 box only comes in 6 speed. End of.
