Volkswagen emissions scandal

[puntofan01]

Why should it unnerve you? It’s acted before the human brain even has a chance to react.

I had city stop on my last car, the system on my current car is even more sophisticated.

Another example I have, a car pulled out of a side road in front of me on a 40mph road, yes I was annoyed at it, and probably followed to close to it, at the last minute it braked hard to turn left onto another side road, at point I started to steer round, the car bleeps collision assistance or something similar already starts to slow the car and prime the ABS system in case of emergency braking. It is effective certainly.

Cruise control - I don’t tend to rely on using cruise as I like to feel in control of the car and cruise takes some of that away. Mines does have adaptive cruise, and it works very well, braking and accelerating to the set speed. It’s very unnerving at first but the you learn to trust. The only problem is though I have found is when you turn it off, you need to remember to brake!!

These technologies are great and help to reduce accidents

You say about liking to feel in control: that's the exact reason I don't like driver aids! A few years ago, I occasionally had to drive a 2012 Sprinter for work, and the traction control was a nightmare! It would cut in when it really wasn't necessary, and disengage before I'd had chance to lift my foot off the accelerator.

 

[StevenRB45]

I must admit, I think that would unnerve me. What happens if these systems go wrong though? I'd be uncomfortable with using cruise control for the same reason.

Tbf these things tend to be failsafe. Bloke on Mazda forum had his cars BCM cleared by in-expert electrical work. The result was not no driver aids or catastrophic weirdness. It locked it's brakes and refused to move, when the BCM was restored it was back to 100% with no Ill effects.

That and cruise control..if it was possible for it to fail on..press the clutch, switch the key off...whatever.

 

[306maxi]

You say about liking to feel in control: that's the exact reason I don't like driver aids! A few years ago, I occasionally had to drive a 2012 Sprinter for work, and the traction control was a nightmare! It would cut in when it really wasn't necessary, and disengage before I'd had chance to lift my foot off the accelerator.

It would have cut in when it detected wheelspin. That’s what traction control does.

 

[puntofan01]

Even when going in a straight line at 30mph?

 

[306maxi]

You can get wheelspin at any speed if you’re hamfisted.

 

[puntofan01]

I wasn't being ham fisted. I was always uncomfortably aware that it was rwd, and drove with extra care...

 

[306maxi]

And yet you got wheelspin and the traction control kicked in.

 

[puntofan01]

I don't know about wheelspin, but certainly, the tc kicked in. I didn't have that problem in the Vito.

 

[306maxi]

Because you got wheelspin! It’s really that simple. Traction control won’t kick in unless you get wheelspin...

 

[AndyRKett]

Now would I rather career off the road, or keep nice and safe with driver aids?

[ame]https://youtu.be/hd5JMQr4qe0[/ame]

If you watch the video you will see the car doing things that people can’t do, it can apply the brakes to one wheel or the wheels on one side while letting the other rotate freely. This allows the car to skid steer.

Things like automatic breaking and adaptive cruise control all work well, and in the event they don’t work then your still going to have the same accident you would have had without them, as you weren’t paying enough attention.

If traction control doesn’t work, then you’ll spin the wheels, and hopefully learn how to feather the throttle.

If you can drive without driver aids then you should be able to drive with them, and the reason that NCap put so much weight on them being present, is because they genuinely do make things safer.

Referring to a point above, the number of airbags a car has is largely irrelevant, airbags are in themselves a dangerous item in a car, and due to a multitude of computer algorithms, even in the biggest of accidents they won’t always go off if the computers don’t think it will be safe.

A new car has much more complex systems to decide on the safety of deploying the airbag, where as older cars are much more dumb so could set an airbag off in an unsafe situation causing injury rather than preventing it.

 

[AndyRKett]

I still feel safe in my Grande tbh: it still has a strong passenger compartment, and unlike the 1s that they tested, mine has 6 airbags rather than just 2. I fully intend to try and find a current model Punto when the time comes to replace my Grande, and I'll make sure I buy another 1 with 6 airbags. I'm really not bothered by the lack of driver aids tbh. I feel that if you drive properly, you don't really need them

Car accidents is like a game of Conkers, the hardest conker wins, in cars the better the design of the structure compared to the other car the more chance you have of coming out the best.

The older the car gets the more likely it is to be the weaker car in the event of an accident as the average age of cars on the road, leaves that older car behind.

If you look at the report you’ll see the number of airbags didn’t come into it as it performed reasonably well from the side impacts. It was the front and rear impacts that let the punto down, areas where the additional curtain bags would not have made any difference.

Also worth noting that the car they tested was a 2012-present model and not an older evo or grande, the car has been redesigned a couple of times during its run and the interior improved, yet one of the things they still commented on was the interior’s design and how it could lead to further injury.

You car as it stands driving a long a road is not “unsafe” safety only becomes an issue when you hit something or something hits you, it’s not always going to be something you can avoid, and if what you hit is stronger than your car then you’re not going to fair too well out of it.

 

[puntofan01]

Because you got wheelspin! It’s really that simple. Traction control won’t kick in unless you get wheelspin...

How did I manage to get wheelspin at a steady speed?!?! I can't actually remember the last time I got wheelspin in my car, even in the wet!!!

 

[306maxi]

How did I manage to get wheelspin at a steady speed?!?! I can't actually remember the last time I got wheelspin in my car, even in the wet!!!

You tried to put more torque through the wheels than they were able to transmit to the road...

 

[306maxi]

You don’t get wheelspin in your car because it’s underpowered.

 

[puntofan01]

I repeat: the TC would kick in at a steady speed, with a steady throttle. That is down to the design of the vehicle/TC system, not down to my driving.

 

[JCarp16]

You don’t get wheelspin in your car because it’s underpowered.

If it was underpowered it wouldn't move.

 

[StevenRB45]

I repeat: the TC would kick in at a steady speed, with a steady throttle. That is down to the design of the vehicle/TC system, not down to my driving.

Have to say I've never experienced this in any vehicle fitted with traction control. If this was occurring it had a faulty wheel speed sensor.

In general if the systems activate you will know why. They detect differences in wheel speed, if one of the driven wheels is going far faster than the other wheels (assume open diff!) It kills the power and brakes that wheel.

Same with ESP unless the car detects it is deviating from the expected line via the on-board sensors it should stay dormant.

If you're driving a normal cooking vehicle it should be possible to go for months or even years without it coming on.

 

[JimbbobW1977]

You say about liking to feel in control: that's the exact reason I don't like driver aids! A few years ago, I occasionally had to drive a 2012 Sprinter for work, and the traction control was a nightmare! It would cut in when it really wasn't necessary, and disengage before I'd had chance to lift my foot off the accelerator.

Doesn’t your Punto have ASR? I know my Elegenza had it fitted...

 

[Steve145]

Big powerful rear wheel drive van?

No weight in the back?

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the TC kicked in.


Our LDV Convoy (that's a while ago...) would sit and spin it's wheels at the slightest hint of anything slippy unless it had a good load in the back. Once got stuck on the sill of a gate, a rail just a few inches wide.


More recently, the traction control on our works FWD Transit was a pain in the backside. It worked, in as much as it prevented wheelspin, effectively immobilising the vehicle as soon as there was snow on the ground. Fortunately, it had an off switch, or we'd never have got anywhere.


I once turned off the ASR/ESP/whatever it was called on a (also works) Peugeot 1007, just to see. I turned it back on pretty rapidly. It's incredible the basic chassis issues these modern systems can hide.


Give me a simple car with good chassis design any day.

 

[puntofan01]

Doesn’t your Punto have ASR? I know my Elegenza had it fitted...

Nah, I'd imagine yours had it because it was a 1.9 multijet.