Technical Underheating since bought, this morning overheating :( "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

[Mikkey180]

Hello everyone, second issue already with betty

Since I bought her I have done around 80 miles or so, and realised the car never really got up to 90 degrees or so on the temp gauge, I presumed it was the thermostat and I was planning on doing it on Saturday when I get my first pay from the new job

Unfortunately It would appear things have taken a turn for the worst, I set off to go to work this morning at around 6pm (it was well below freezing outside) and about 5 minutes of driving later the temp was going past 90 degrees... So i kept watchful and pulled over, only to realise some of the coolant pipes where frozen!

So I turned the car off and let it cool off. The heat from the engine free'd the pipes off so I drove back to my girlfriends house and left it, then during the day I drove it back to York and the temperature is going past 90 degrees by a fair bit, but the engine has just had the head gasket done and the engine still runs perfectly. I just hope I didn't damage anything I expected it to have anti freeze in as it just had a coolant change

Do you think it could be that the thermostat has jammed shut? Or have I broken the water pump?

Any advice would be great, can the water pump be easily checked?

I just hope I haven't damaged the engine! :'(

 

[blu73]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

if the pipes were frozen then the thermostat was probably frozen as well... Need to drain it asap and refill with coolant, this dude has clearly just used water don't drive it until you sorted that.

Probably best to do a compression test on it now once you done coolant as well, hopefully be ok.

Can you tell if he has put new belts on the car when he's done the HG??

 

[fingers99]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Easy way to check the water pump is to remove the water rail. You should be able to see all the fins on the impeller (mirror on a stick may help) and, if you try to turn the impeller, it should be impossible to turn.

(Frozen block will either shear the blades off the impeller or unbond it so it turns freely.)

What eedjut put water in at this time of year?

 

[blu73]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

i never changed the water pump in my ownership so no idea how old it is, i was gonna say if the belts aren't brand new looking then its probably getting towards time to change them. Water pump is a couple of extra minutes if you taking the cambelt off

if you do decide to do that i don't mind lending a hand, just remember you need punto60 belt if you do buy new one, and get a new tensioner as well. Its not a huge job on one of these cars - half day maybe depending on how cold it is and therefore how many required tea breaks

 

[sei16v]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Did you have a working heater when you first had it (IE warm air)... As if not the previous owner might have removed the stat from the car... Had a similar issue with a car i bought where the prat had taken the stat out to stop the car getting hot... Although ive also known it in the past where they sieze open/shut/half open etc...

Could have been a cause to the H/G... and might still be a problem, hence why only some of your pipes were frozen as the water & anti-freeze not getting around

Worth a check either way

 

[fingers99]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Or the other way round -- it's a pretty common bodge (as is wiring the fan to be permanently on or cockpit switched) to disguise HG issues.

I bought a Sei with both! Underlying problem was a shredded water pump. :bang:

 

[rallycinq]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

The reason it heated up when you drove it is there is less water in it, you have an airlock as you lost some water.

Get that water out of it asap, and get coolant into it...remember its an alloy head.

Cheers

D

 

[rallycinq]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

I've just put two and two together to get 4

Of course your car will over fuel if it doesn't get warm....

Cheers

D

 

[Mikkey180]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Hey everyone. just a quick update, the HG would appear to be fine, and the engine didn't get overly hot engine sounds/runs exactly the same as it did before

We took the thermostat off and it has jammed shut, so it has been removed so I can drive it home (only 2 miles or so) then it won't be getting used until I get a new thermostat on Saturday

Also I will be doing a full service just to be safe as i doubt it has had fresh oil since the head change (just topped up) So it will be all new just to know it is fine, will also be getting a new cambelt for it and tensioners.

Blu73 I will let you know if I need a hand, I will let you know how things go guys

Got to look after BB!!!

 

[Mikkey180]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Also the heaters worked when I got the car

 

[JustAndy]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

I had a bad feeling when I sold it
Pretty pissed off that hes just tried to make a few quid on it when the lass that bought it seemed really interested in the car and I was hoping that she would look after her.
Glad youve got it now though and you will look after her

 

[Mikkey180]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

I had a bad feeling when I sold it
Pretty pissed off that hes just tried to make a few quid on it when the lass that bought it seemed really interested in the car and I was hoping that she would look after her.
Glad you've got it now though and you will look after her

Things are getting worse..... Took the thermostat out (which did appear to be stuck) but the car is still getting hot! What could it be? the coolant system is pressurising and the heaters are working fine. I am really starting to worry, only owned the car for 4 days or so Could it possibly be the water pump?

 

[whitz]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

If it was frozen might of ripped the impeller off the water pump shaft, seen this before

Ash

 

[Mikkey180]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

If it was frozen might of ripped the impeller off the water pump shaft, seen this before

Ash

Thanks for the help!!! Cheers, hoping it won't be too tight to do having the 1.2 in a cinq, its looking tight around the cambelt area, Are they a week pump? Sorry for all the questions I am just really worried and annoyed I didn't check the coolant

 

[Lecook]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Have you done as fingers said and removed the water channel pipe to check the impeller blades?? This is really the only way to check the waterpump without removing the belt, and if your removing the belt you may aswell replace the cambelt, tensioner and waterpump just for piece of mind

Lee

 

[fingers99]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Thanks for the help!!! Cheers, hoping it won't be too tight to do having the 1.2 in a cinq, its looking tight around the cambelt area, Are they a week pump? Sorry for all the questions I am just really worried and annoyed I didn't check the coolant

The engine is no wider than a 1.1 (only taller) Wheel off, inner arch off (be careful in cold weather -- if you can, play a fan heater on it to gently warm it, they can crack), alternator pulley off, cambelt cover off, and access to the pump is easy peasy.

They're not weak -- folk witter on about the impeller's coming loose on the shaft, but I've never seen it. After 60k miles, it makes sense to change it, the belt and the tensioner.

But try the water rail removal, peek and feel thing first. The water rail is the metal pipe running along the engine just above the oil filter.

 

[Mikkey180]

The engine is no wider than a 1.1 (only taller) Wheel off, inner arch off (be careful in cold weather -- if you can, play a fan heater on it to gently warm it, they can crack), alternator pulley off, cambelt cover off, and access to the pump is easy peasy.

They're not weak -- folk witter on about the impeller's coming loose on the shaft, but I've never seen it. After 60k miles, it makes sense to change it, the belt and the tensioner.

But try the water rail removal, peek and feel thing first. The water rail is the metal pipe running along the engine just above the oil filter.

thank you! Looks like I have a busy weekend ahead of me, I will let everyone know how I get on, might upload some pics allong the way

 

[Mikkey180]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

I have to note when I started the car it did turn over a little slower than usual, I though nothing of it being winter, but could this of being resistance on the pump? I am kinda hoping that the pump is the issue orelse I am all out of ideas!

 

[blu73]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

you bled it properly from both bleeding points, if you have heaters i presume you did the one on the bulkhead which is for the heater matrix.. There is one for the radiator behind the drivers side headlight, you might just have an airlock but if it was frozen it is likely the pump is now fubar. Just buy a new one, they ain't expensive and like i said before, few extra mins when doing cambelt. I know alot of people just change the pump when doing cambelt as a matter of course.

 

[Pep0]

Re: Underheating since bought, this morning overheating "Black Betty 1.2 cinq)

Hi

If the pump is dead then only the little pipe from the intake manifold heater to the header tank will get warm. The heater pipes will stay cold the filler cap pressure relief will blow off very hot water.

It is not that easy to inspect, e.g. my impeller had turned into plastic granules... but try before you run the engine again.

If you have the inner arch off, replace the belt, belt tension adjuster & pump even if the pump looks good... If the impeller is plastic I'd replace it with a 3rd party metal one. the OEM ones are cast (low efficiency) or plastic (fragile) but you can get 3rd parts machined ones, high efficiency and rugged, though you still need lots of antifreeze if you want to drive off from a cold start.

Last the alterator drive pulley can go on three ways only one way will work, there is an index but you might miss it.

And it is a pig getting the inner arch back on in the cold, it needs patience, and band aids...

Noel