Tyre talk

[StevenRB45]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

As for snow socks, no thanks, my winter tyres don't need to be chopped and changed as I go from a road where there is no snow to one which has snow on it. Snow socks also don't work in slush either and have a speed limit of 30mph. No thanks I think I'd prefer to run 2 winter tyres!!!!!

The voice of someone who has never used snow socks....

First of all if it's bad enough to be using them why are you doing more than 30 mph????? And second it takes 30 seconds a side to put them on...rather than watching a neanderthal jack your car up with the exhaust in a tyre place take your old tyres off put your winters on then give you them back to store in living room until summer...you could do it yourself obviously but then you have to have spare wheels...which not only are an insurance liability as most people dont buy the exact same spec of wheel as the oem fit so it technically invalidates your insurance when you put them on unless you call your insurance everytime you swap wheels and pay their admin fee + any additional premium...

Incase you are wondering I ran socks through last winter and plan to this winter there were several times the car stopped dead stuck the socks on and off it went...yes it was a fanny stopping when the road was not lethal to take them off but no more so than stopping to clean the lights.

 

[306maxi]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

And second it takes 30 seconds a side to put them on...rather than watching a neanderthal jack your car up with the exhaust in a tyre place take your old tyres off put your winters on then give you them back to store in living room until summer.

I don't work at a tyre place?

 

[306maxi]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

which not only are an insurance liability as most people dont buy the exact same spec of wheel as the oem fit so it technically invalidates your insurance when you put them on unless you call your insurance everytime you swap wheels and pay their admin fee + any additional premium...

Wrong much?
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/259734/

 

[Ziggy122]

Its only a problem fitting Winter Tyres when you fit the incorrect speed and weight rating tyres

Those 81t or 74Q Sort of numbers on the tyres are very important

Too low of a weight rating - you risk blowing due to been overloaded
Too Low of a Speed Rating - and you risk a blow out at speed - DISASTER!!

Consult your manual - have a look and it'll tell you what Tyres to fit
Fit them - and the insurance should be okay

Or Fit the Same Spec as Summer tyres

ziggy

 

[306maxi]

Its only a problem fitting Winter Tyres when you fit the incorrect speed and weight rating tyres

Those 81t or 74Q Sort of numbers on the tyres are very important

Too low of a weight rating - you risk blowing due to been overloaded
Too Low of a Speed Rating - and you risk a blow out at speed - DISASTER!!

Consult your manual - have a look and it'll tell you what Tyres to fit
Fit them - and the insurance should be okay

Or Fit the Same Spec as Summer tyres

ziggy

Exactly.

Insurance can whinge and whine all they want, but if your tyres meet the specs laid out in the handbook then they can take a flying jump. Go to court and you'll tear them a new rectoidal orifice. If it's E marked, has enough tread and it meets the specs in the handbook there is literally nothing they can do.

 

[StevenRB45]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

Wrong much?
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/259734/

Well as I work for a major insurance company allow me to expand on what I already said...straight swap for manfacturers spec winter tyres is fine yes. Swapping from summer to winter wheels EG having a set of 17 inch alloys for summer and a set of 15 inch steel rims off the base model for winter...that is a modification...If you read what I said again I said if you had spare wheels they had to be the exact spec of your oem wheels or its mod...

Shock something in autocar doesn't tell you everything you need to know...

 

[306maxi]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

Well as I work for a major insurance company allow me to expand on what I already said...straight swap for manfacturers spec winter tyres is fine yes. Swapping from summer to winter wheels EG having a set of 17 inch alloys for summer and a set of 15 inch steel rims off the base model for winter...that is a modification...If you read what I said again I said if you had spare wheels they had to be the exact spec of your oem wheels or its mod...

Shock something in autocar doesn't tell you everything you need to know...

I'm sorry but that is absolutely NOT true. Insurance only care if there is extra risk or a deviation for factory specification. Steelies don't present a greater risk of accident and in fact present a lower risk as they're less attractive to thieves and if they need to replace one as a result of a claim it'll cost them less......

If we were to go by your "logic" if I were to replace the Bridgestones on my car with some Linglong's or something crappy then that would be a modification and my insurance company should charge me a higher premium.

You may not be aware of this, but insurance groups are worked out based on the handbook specifications laid out by the manufacturer and not the way your car comes out of the showroom. That is why if you've got a 500 Abarth you can fit different wheels, dampers, discs, pads, ecu and air filter and there is precisely a 0p increase in your premium because the esseesse kit is part of the specification. When I first insured my 500 from new I told them it had a leather interior and bigger wheels and he said that they don't need to know of any differences in specification as long as it's a factory option. It's when you deviate from the factory optons and fit aftermarket wheels/suspension etc which might make your car look more attractive to thieves or result in an increase performance then they have every right to charge you extra.

I've sold vehicle insurance also......

 

[dave]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

there are a lot of winter part worn tyres coming over from germany and being sold at part worn tyre places and ebay, warning there is a reason that the germans take them off when they get to 4mm they dont work anymore in snow, so dont waste money buying any with what may seem a lot of tread, what is legal and ok for summer tread is useless for winter tyres

 

[StevenRB45]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

I'm sorry but that is absolutely NOT true. Insurance only care if there is extra risk or a deviation for factory specification. Steelies don't present a greater risk of accident and in fact present a lower risk as they're less attractive to thieves and if they need to replace one as a result of a claim it'll cost them less......

If we were to go by your "logic" if I were to replace the Bridgestones on my car with some Linglong's or something crappy then that would be a modification and my insurance company should charge me a higher premium.

You may not be aware of this, but insurance groups are worked out based on the handbook specifications laid out by the manufacturer and not the way your car comes out of the showroom. That is why if you've got a 500 Abarth you can fit different wheels, dampers, discs, pads, ecu and air filter and there is precisely a 0p increase in your premium because the esseesse kit is part of the specification. When I first insured my 500 from new I told them it had a leather interior and bigger wheels and he said that they don't need to know of any differences in specification as long as it's a factory option. It's when you deviate from the factory optons and fit aftermarket wheels/suspension etc which might make your car look more attractive to thieves or result in an increase performance then they have every right to charge you extra.

I've sold vehicle insurance also......

I'm not gonna argue round in circles with you, I know how the insurance company I work for operates and i'm telling you how they apply their policy now today and what communications we have recieved about winter tyres and wheels...

Anything with a change of spec must be referred to the underwriter they may well say note the policy and don't apply a loading its fine, but if you change the vehicle from standard the insurance company will want to know

In case your wondering I share my employer with the guy at the end of the autocar quote...

 

[ChrisUK]

Nice tip Dave and completely correct

 

[306maxi]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

there are a lot of winter part worn tyres coming over from germany and being sold at part worn tyre places and ebay, warning there is a reason that the germans take them off when they get to 4mm they dont work anymore in snow, so dont waste money buying any with what may seem a lot of tread, what is legal and ok for summer tread is useless for winter tyres

Agreed. The whole thing that gives winter tyres their performance on snow and ice is the depth of the sipes. The sipes can't go right down to the actual base of the tread because the tyres would be far too flexible on a dry road. Once the sipes are gone the tyre will lose a great deal of its performance on snow and ice. It'll still be better than a summer tyre however.....

When my winters get close to 4mm and won't last through another full winter, I'm going to just run them through the winter. Sure they won't be as good as summers but not having the sipes, they won't be as squidgy.

 

[306maxi]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

I'm not gonna argue round in circles with you, I know how the insurance company I work for operates and i'm telling you how they apply their policy now today and what communications we have recieved about winter tyres and wheels...

Anything with a change of spec must be referred to the underwriter they may well say note the policy and don't apply a loading its fine, but if you change the vehicle from standard the insurance company will want to know

In case your wondering I share my employer with the guy at the end of the autocar quote...

You can have a policy all you want, but simply having a policy doesn't mean that it's a legal requirement. My insurance could require that I wear a pink tutu whilst driving my car and if I have an accident whilst not wearing said tutu they can try to decline to pay out, but go to court and they'll get told to pay up or **** off and stop selling insurance in the UK.



Your own employers website disagrees with your view on things anyway

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-in-the-uk.html

Insurance implications - winter tyres

If you fit winter or all-season tyres in place of your standard 'summer' tyres there should be no need to tell your insurer – even though the speed index might be lower.
The lower speed index is still likely to exceed all national speed limits by a considerable margin – with the exception of some German autobahns – and is not checked as part of the passenger car MOT test.
If you follow the standard European practice of keeping two sets of wheels, one with winter tyres and one with summer tyres, then you shouldn't need to tell your insurer as long as the winter tyres are fitted to wheels of the correct specification.

• 'Correct specification' means that the wheel size – diameter, width and offset – conforms to the vehicle manufacturer's specifications.
• Check the handbook for details of wheel/tyre sizes suitable for your car and refer to the car manufacturer or dealer for further advice.

Over the winter of 2010/11 we did hear reports of some insurers increasing premiums or remarkably even refusing cover if winter tyres are fitted. As a result we recommend talking to your insurer if you are considering fitting winter tyres.

Notice the bit in bold.

 

[StevenRB45]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

You can have a policy all you want, but simply having a policy doesn't mean that it's a legal requirement. My insurance could require that I wear a pink tutu whilst driving my car and if I have an accident whilst not wearing said tutu they can try to decline to pay out, but go to court and they'll get told to pay up or **** off and stop selling insurance in the UK.



Your own employers website disagrees with your view on things anyway

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-in-the-uk.html




Notice the bit in bold.

Yup we basically disagree as to what is vehicle manufacturers standard specification...If your car comes as standard with 205 17inch alloys and you then fit for example 155 15inch steel wheels, that would be a change in specification..

 

[306maxi]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

Yup we basically disagree as to what is vehicle manufacturers standard specification...If your car comes as standard with 205 17inch alloys and you then fit for example 155 15inch steel wheels, that would be a change in specification..

It doesn't say standard specification though.....

'Correct specification' means that the wheel size – diameter, width and offset – conforms to the vehicle manufacturer's specifications.

My 14" steelies didn't come with the car, but they conform to the manufacturers specifications......

 

[StevenRB45]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

Well the way we work it is to refer anything that is not factory spec for that vehicle to the underwriter of the policy, that way if the customer goes on to crash and claim they are definitely covered because the insurance company is aware of the changes to the vehicle. That way we are covered, the customer is covered and the underwriter knows exactly what is going on.

Whether they choose to apply an AP or note the policy or whatever they wish to do is the underwriters' decision as they are insuring the risk and have to decide if the changes you have made have made that vehicle a higher risk.

Main thing is do tell your insurer, they may well be ok with it but they would still like to know.

And I may well have had the keyboard warrior on last night/this morning

 

[306maxi]

Re: What's made you grumpy today?

Well the way we work it is to refer anything that is not factory spec for that vehicle to the underwriter of the policy, that way if the customer goes on to crash and claim they are definitely covered because the insurance company is aware of the changes to the vehicle. That way we are covered, the customer is covered and the underwriter knows exactly what is going on.

Whether they choose to apply an AP or note the policy or whatever they wish to do is the underwriters' decision as they are insuring the risk and have to decide if the changes you have made have made that vehicle a higher risk.

Main thing is do tell your insurer, they may well be ok with it but they would still like to know.

And I may well have had the keyboard warrior on last night/this morning

Fair enough When I meet an internet warrior I also put my internet warrior hat on too

As for telling your insurer I guess it can't hurt other than when someone makes the mistake of deeming it a modification when it's not which does sometimes happen when the person calling up doesn't make it clear what changes have been made and makes it sound like a modification. I actually called my insurer up last year hoping for an argument and after explaining things fully and honestly he said there no need to inform them and there would be no increase in premium.

My main point was that insurance companies have all sorts of conditions and requests. Asking customers to call if they make any changes to their car is a good thing, you don't want people to change something and think they're alright and then find out they're not covered. It's not good for the customer and if they're not happy then it's not good for you. Just because an insurance company asks you to inform them doesn't mean that you insurance is null and void if you don't, but if you've done something daft like put tyres on which don't meet Fiat's specs and you have an accident then you're basically boned.

Tyres are a funny thing when it comes to insurance. In theory as long as the tyres you fit are the right size, weight rating, speed rating, are E-marked (as in legal to use in the EU) and have more than 1.6mm of tread then they're legal tyres. That's regardless of how good the tyres actually are, regardless of whether they're winter tyres in the summer or summer tyres in the winter and regardless of whether it's the most expensive and best tyre you could buy or the worst tyre you could possibly purchase.

I for one am happy about the new tyre regs coming in soon, it should mean the end of some really crappy tyres because they need to meet certain standards, and it will also give the average person walking into a tyre shop a fighting chance

Responsibilities of tyre distributors *
Distributors must ensure that the labels delivered by suppliers are clearly visible on the tyres presented or stored at the point of sale. If tyres cannot be seen by end-users, they must supply this information to users themselves.

Fantastic