Technical TwinAir timing cover torque specs?

[lunchbeers]

So I noticed this weekend, I’ve got an oil leak which I suspect is the timing cover - oil residue on the skid plate and it seems to be contaminating the auxiliary belt so that’ll need changing and the whole lot cleaned up when I service it soon.

Following this link for the repair - https://www.autodata-group.com/uk/news/company/autodocta-2012-fiat-500/

In the past I’ve had a copy of eLearn for my Alfa's which gives ingormation on the procedures and torque settings, but now I'm flying blind - anyone able to give me the specs for the timing cover bolts - alternativley if there is eLearn avaiable for the 2013 Panda? - I suspect not though.

Also looking to use Loctite’s SI 5660 when I do the repaie, generally found this to be the best when dealing with oil-intensive areas unless anyone has any better alternatives?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Good luck with this one.... The best advice I would give would be to note the force required to remove the bolts and refit as far as poss to match.. Compare similar bolt sizes and the materials of the components. Most small bolts on the 169 Panda are 6-12lb/ft. Generally not nearly as tight as I would expect and a lot less than I probably give them, If I could get a good workshop book for the 4x4TA I would be prepared to pay good money for it but alas there are none anywhere that I can find. I would just be doing these up gently and adding a nip up. This or go ask your local dealer. I have found over the years dealers have been much more helpful with this sort of thing than you might expect. Ditto Fiat technical if you can actually get hold of them. I have put 169 torque settings for quite a few things - gleaned fron various souces- on here as a resource. Some of the values may help indicate what might be best.

 

[lunchbeers]

Much appreciated, I’ll see if I can work out what it takes to remove them and go from there.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Much appreciated, I’ll see if I can work out what it takes to remove them and go from there.

This may be of interest. I think the Italians are in fact Japanese after reading this.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

the Haynes online 'not quite a manual' claims to list all the tightening torques... I've not downloaded/paid for the Panda one but did for a Volvo V50 I had and although not 100% specific for some things in the way the old printed manuals were, it did have this sort of specific data in it. Currently on offer too (and if new to the website an extra 10% off with code HELP10) https://haynes.com/en-gb/fiat/panda/2012-09-petrol-401143

 

[The Panda Nut]

£26 seems not a lot in rel;ation to £75 for a tank of fuel.... Im going to order one now and will report back on exactly whats in it in due course.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

£26 seems not a lot in rel;ation to £75 for a tank of fuel.... Im going to order one now and will report back on exactly whats in it in due course.

The Volvo one seemed to be a mix of 'generic stuff' from Haynes, but also car specific material, maybe from Volvo or maybe the AutoData system the non-dealer workshops use. it was pretty good. the Panda one does't fully support the 4x4 stuff (eg no mention of rear disk brakes) but in other areas looks good from the bits of preview you can see for free. Look forward to hearing the feedback
Pete

 

[The Panda Nut]

The Volvo one seemed to be a mix of 'generic stuff' from Haynes, but also car specific material, maybe from Volvo or maybe the AutoData system the non-dealer workshops use. it was pretty good. the Panda one does't fully support the 4x4 stuff (eg no mention of rear disk brakes) but in other areas looks good from the bits of preview you can see for free. Look forward to hearing the feedback
Pete

 

[The Panda Nut]

Haynes AutoFix and Haynes Online Manual products are digital-only and accessed through your Haynes.com account. These are not books and nothing will be posted to you.
Refunds cannot be processed once you have accessed the product so please ensure you have the correct one before use. You can access your digital-only purchases immediately by going to your subscriptions area on Haynes.com.

I will have a look and see what there is to report

 

[The Panda Nut]

Haynes AutoFix and Haynes Online Manual products are digital-only and accessed through your Haynes.com account. These are not books and nothing will be posted to you.
Refunds cannot be processed once you have accessed the product so please ensure you have the correct one before use. You can access your digital-only purchases immediately by going to your subscriptions area on Haynes.com.

I will have a look and see what there is to report

Well its really then thinnest possible amount of info. But the belt cover is 8-10Nm which isnt far off my gues at 6-12! When I have had a look I will pass judgement. There is at least some new information but NOTHING on the engine they so specifically quote! Im sure I can get £26 worth of value this is only 5 nano seconds at the dealers but I think 80% of what is there seem to be straight from the sales blurb and handbook. What there is can be printed so I shall print the lot and keep a copy with the book for the 169. They do have a torque list for bolt sizes that will be interesting but I guess you culd get this on google.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well I would say. WARNING hang on to your money. There is almost nothing in this so called product thats not in the handbook. It takes under 5 minutes to study everything and the only things there are drawings of front and rear brakes drum and discs. Steering box and torque settings engine and gearboix mounts and front suspension and thats it. It was worth paying if noone else wastes their money All the drawings on this software are already on teh forum. The pics of the fuse boxes are just like the handbook . AIr con has a pathetic schematic drawing showing the condenser and pipe runs which you can see by looking. Really they should be ashamed of themselves. 8/10 of the sections are empty.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Well I would say. WARNING hang on to your money. There is almost nothing in this so called product thats not in the handbook. It takes under 5 minutes to study everything and the only things there are drawings of front and rear brakes drum and discs. Steering box and torque settings engine and gearboix mounts and front suspension and thats it. It was worth paying if noone else wastes their money All the drawings on this software are already on teh forum. The pics of the fuse boxes are just like the handbook . AIr con has a pathetic schematic drawing showing the condenser and pipe runs which you can see by looking. Really they should be ashamed of themselves. 8/10 of the sections are empty.

the interface is flaky but actually there's a fair bit in there ... here's the full list of engine torque values (I've not included the numbers as that would infringe copyright). But it shows that for the TwinAir, the timing cover torque is 8-10 Nm -- which answers @lunchbeers original question

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

@The Panda Nut To get to that bit, choose Maintenance and Repair from the menu, then engine, then specifications, then scroll right down the page. its a very long list

 

[lunchbeers]

the interface is flaky but actually there's a fair bit in there ... here's the full list of engine torque values (I've not included the numbers as that would infringe copyright). But it shows that for the TwinAir, the timing cover torque is 8-10 Nm -- which answers @lunchbeers original question

View attachment 410378

That’s perfect, thanks! I was going to aim for 11Nm when undoing them as a starter.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well I would say. WARNING hang on to your money. There is almost nothing in this so called product thats not in the handbook. It takes under 5 minutes to study everything and the only things there are drawings of front and rear brakes drum and discs. Steering box and torque settings engine and gearboix mounts and front suspension and thats it. It was worth paying if noone else wastes their money All the drawings on this software are already on teh forum. The pics of the fuse boxes are just like the handbook . AIr con has a pathetic schematic drawing showing the condenser and pipe runs which you can see by looking. Really they should be ashamed of themselves. 8/10 of the sections are empty.

I wrote to Haynes and told them I was not happy about a manual with many blank sections and to their credit they refunded the cost. There are drawings of the front and rear brakes, the front and rear suspnsion and the 4x2 nad 4x4 and of the steering box and rear diff. There are two pages of torque settings but that really is about it. Its not ready for release and there is more information in your handbook than in this current version of the manual. I shall let it rest there. I have said to Haynes if they produce a manual with inofrmation inside its framework I woudl buy one. ANyway live and learn

 

[lunchbeers]

I’m pleased they refunded you the cost! I’d have felt royally cheated too on that basis.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The more I look, my version seems to have an awful lot more than that in it - full wiring diagrams, diagnostic fault finding for most electronic systems, and a whole lot more. Even shows the fabled headlight control circuit. These interface isn't great so some of these are hard to locate, and many take a while to open up - which might lead initially to thinking' there's nothing in that section'... Only thing is its a subscription I think, so only valid 12 months.

 

[The Panda Nut]

What do you have on tech drawings. I had just brakes and suspension and the air con system which was a joke. I am beginning to wonder if in fact there was something wrong with my link and if I had a demo version. There was definitely nothing in 50% of the sections. These were really blank pages. I would love to have a look, as if its much better than what I had delivered it might be worth another try. The engine section was effectively blank there was I believe 1 page and the view shown was what can be seen of the drive belts from above and totally useless in relation to changing the belts for imnstance..

 

[jrkitching]

Generally not nearly as tight as I would expect and a lot less than I probably give them

That.

Whenever I buy a brand new car, I make a point of removing those bolts I'm likely to need to undo later, applying an anti seize compound, and refitting them*. The loosening torque is often surprisingly low; most folks seriously overtighten bolts, probably through fear of them loosening.

And if you do grease bolts, be aware that you should only tighten to around 65% of the dry torque settings, or you'll overtighten them and possibly permanently deform the threads.

*This proved its value when I recently replaced the cat support bracket after 12 yrs. The heatshield retaining nuts and bolts, often a complete pain to remove, came off easily without any issues, and after degreasing and relubricating, were fit for further service.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Whenever I buy a brand new car, I make a point of removing those bolts I'm likely to need to undo later, applying an anti seize compound, and refitting them*. …

I did this with mine for the silly little pin screws that hold the brake discs in place when the wheel bolts are out. This car (4 years old, nearly 40k miles) still on original brakes. But it made it all so much easier on its predecessor when the time came to change the discs. Didn’t try with other bolts though.