Tuning Tuned 999cc FIRE build

[Fiat powered reliant]

Hi all, I'm building a hot engine based on a Panda 1000s engine to go in my Reliant Kitten and thought it might be of interest.
The engine came to me already converted to fit a RWD Reliant gearbox and I've checked the bottom end which was fine and I'm building up the top end at the moment.
The spec is: 1.1 punto head (larger ports than the 999 head) skimmed 30 thou and mildly ported with my Dremel, 262 degree fast road cam from Cat Cams, 32mm bike carbs from a Honda cbr400rr and megajolt 3D ignition using a throttle position sensor.
I've been in contact with smokeme who seems an expert on these small FIRE engines and he thinks I should get the 75-80 hp I'm after depending on rev limit though he thought the bottom end should really be balanced.
Some pics;

As it came to me;

New head and cam;

Carbs;

Megajolt kit;

Megajolt trigger wheel and sensor;

More pics soon if anyones interested?

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Cool, I saw your reliant project in the non fiat section. Looks great! I'll follow your build as I am doing a similar thing except with the 965cc 4x4 engine (the A112 autobianchi beast).

Good luck with it all anyway,
Si

 

[purple haze]

Looks very interesting....Could you tell us the costs as well??

 

[Fiat powered reliant]

Looks very interesting....Could you tell us the costs as well??

No problem, head £20 off ebay, £40 to have it skimmed.
Cam £270 delivered, Fiat shims £7 - £11 each.
Carbs £30 (ebay again), Bogg brothers inlet manifold to suit £200, pipercross air filter £100.
Megajolt £200ish though last time I fitted one I managed to source everything secondhand and managed to do it for less than £100.
I'm only using this ignition system as the standard Panda distributor would foul on the bulkhead on my car, I'd imagine the standard ignition would be fine if the engine was still FWD.

 

[VmanC]

Great thread, I've been wondering what can be done and what's available with regards to tuning, but I wasn't going to start hunting for info until I was ready for that stage of my projects. Now I don't have to look very far .
As you're using an 1100 head I'm assuming the 1242 head is incompatible with the 999 block? If that is the case, is there any reason why the larger 1242 valves couldn't be fitted to the 1100 head with a bit of machining?

Good luck with it, I shall be watching with interest, I'm off to find your Reliant project thread now.

 

[Fiat powered reliant]

As you're using an 1100 head I'm assuming the 1242 head is incompatible with the 999 block? If that is the case, is there any reason why the larger 1242 valves couldn't be fitted to the 1100 head with a bit of machining?

I don't know if the 1242 head would work, I stuck with the 1108 head as the bore is the same as the 999. The valves are quite large for the size of the engine anyway, and my cam isn't that lairy meaning my rev limit will probably be around 7500 rpm so the valves should be ok.

Meant to say that I'm using an electric fuel pump from a bike, very cheap and one off of pretty much any sports bike with carbs will do. These are self regulating at about 2.5 psi fuel pressure.

 

[Chas Uno]

No problem, head £20 off ebay, £40 to have it skimmed.
Cam £270 delivered, Fiat shims £7 - £11 each.
Carbs £30 (ebay again), Bogg brothers inlet manifold to suit £200, pipercross air filter £100.
Megajolt £200ish though last time I fitted one I managed to source everything secondhand and managed to do it for less than £100.
I'm only using this ignition system as the standard Panda distributor would foul on the bulkhead on my car, I'd imagine the standard ignition would be fine if the engine was still FWD.

What you are doing is great, I always like to see people doing oldschool tuning on engines and the 999cc FIRE is very under utilised in the tuning stakes. However, the amount of money you are spending is a lot for the amount of power you are getting. For around £200 - £250 you can probably pick up a 16v 1242 FIRE engine complete with wiring loom and ECU, and pretty much everything you need to drop straight in place of a standard 999cc FIRE. A 1242 16v will give you approx. 85 bhp with no other work - look for Damon's "16v into a Panda" thread which shows you how easy the swap. For less than the 16v engine you could pick up a 1242 8v MPi engine that will give you 75 bhp and swap in pretty much the same.

Kudos for you for doing the oldschool method of tuning an engine that's potential has never been realised (except by Smokeme and his mad turbo projects!), but for bhp per pound there are easier options available. I bet a 999cc on 4 x bike carbs will sound good though

 

[Chas Uno]

As you're using an 1100 head I'm assuming the 1242 head is incompatible with the 999 block?

A 1242 head will fit no problem onto a 999cc block. I'm not sure on valve sizes though I think the 1242 and 1108 valves are the same and both are bigger than a 999cc. Again I'm not sure with regards to the combustion chamber volume in the heads. The Cinq section is a good place to ask as many of them have modified and fitted bigger FIRE engines to Cinq Sportings, plus some are very knowledgeable with the technical details

 

[Fiat powered reliant]

but for bhp per pound there are easier options available. I bet a 999cc on 4 x bike carbs will sound good though

Hi, I'm not interested in bhp per £, I've wanted to do a bike carb conversion for a while and as I'm using a weak Reliant gearbox which lots of torque will kill I'm starting with the little one.
I'm after a revvy unit with a sharp throttle response, the 999 is oversquare and should rev nicely. The car is only 500kg so if I can get the expected power it will fly.
The last engine I built for it was a turbo Reliant 850, in terms of bhp per £ that one made this Fiat engine build look positively economical!

 

[CLXCraig]

looks brilliant.

what are you doing exhaust wise? half fiat half reliant, or custom?

 

[VmanC]

Could you give some more info on the Bogg brothers inlet manifold please?

 

[Luke P]

Good work!! Keep us posted on developments and how things are going... Looks like a great project!!

Luke.

 

[alexbpl]

Great work you've put in there!

I love a bit of self porting

Out of interest was there much porting to be had on the head and intake? Many edges to smooths etc?

 

[Fiat powered reliant]

Hi all, the engine is now fitted though I've still got some wiring and plumbing to do.

The inlet ports on the 1108 head were pretty good and I just opened up the throat area a bit with the dremel and removed the "dingleberries" from the walls of the port. I did more work on the inlet manifold, carefully matching it to the gasket which had already been matched to the head.


I've used a bike fuel pump which is self regulating at 2.5-3psi,

The back of the head (in my car) is very close to the bulkhead so a few mods are needed,

Next job is wiring up the megajolt (easy!) then plumbing the cooling system, because of the lack of thermostat housing on the back of the head I'll be using a remote one.

 

[Harllequin]

That looks so much fun but its doing my powers of resistance no good at all!!!

MUST RESIST :bang:

Keep Bex origional no tinkering :bang:

 

[CLXCraig]

you kow what to solution is dont you harllequin?

Another panda

Bouild looks great. Is the reliant gearbox/rwd system going to inhibit the full potential of the engine?

 

[Fiat powered reliant]

Bouild looks great. Is the reliant gearbox/rwd system going to inhibit the full potential of the engine?

The gearbox will be the weakest link for sure, the axle is fairly tough.
Having said that, the formula 750 racers use an 1108 Fire engine tuned to about 70 hp attatched to a Reliant box ok.

 

[Harllequin]

Naw Bex is the one and only Panda being car number 4.

I think a Mini might be the next one, once we move house that is

 

[alexbpl]

Are those motorbike carbs just a standard setup or have you had to fit up/downgraded jets and needles to suit?

 

[Fiat powered reliant]

The carbs have been rejetted by Bogg Brothers who made the manifold so that it will at least run, though it will need setting up properly on a rolling road to get the best out of them, I'll do this as soon as it's driving.
The manifold is beautifully made, the only reason I had to open up the outlets was because I'd sent the 999 carb inlet manifold to the Boggs to use as a template, which I later discovered had much smaller outlets to match the smaller ports in the 999 head.

Some more pics of the manifold,