Technical Timing belt type

[tobywood13]

Hi all, I bought a water pump and timing belt kit off eBay. Unfortunately the timing belt supplied is incorrect, it has too many teeth and doesn’t sit in the crank and cam pulleys (see photos). The one I removed from the car is a Gates 5030-41104 x 15mm, but I can’t seem to find one for sale besides new old stock. Ideally I’d like a brand new one to guarantee maximum lifespan.

Does anyone have a link to a timing belt which will definitely fit? I’m considering reusing the old one as it doesn’t look too bad, but as I’ve gone to the trouble of taking it off I may as well get a brand new one. Thanks.

 

[jackwhoo]

@Pugglt Auld Jock

This is right up Jocks street (-:

 

[jackwhoo]

Search gates 5030fi

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi all, I bought a water pump and timing belt kit off eBay. Unfortunately the timing belt supplied is incorrect, it has too many teeth and doesn’t sit in the crank and cam pulleys (see photos). The one I removed from the car is a Gates 5030-41104 x 15mm, but I can’t seem to find one for sale besides new old stock. Ideally I’d like a brand new one to guarantee maximum lifespan.

Does anyone have a link to a timing belt which will definitely fit? I’m considering reusing the old one as it doesn’t look too bad, but as I’ve gone to the trouble of taking it off I may as well get a brand new one. Thanks.

@Pugglt Auld Jock

This is right up Jocks street (-:

Thanks Jack. Looking at the pictures you've posted @tobywood13, you can clearly see the difference in pitch of the two belts. The lower of the two has a courser pitch, ie less Teeth per inch, and is the same as the one which fitted my old Felicity - see my avatar picture. The top belt has more TPI and is one which fits the later engines. I've looked on the Shop4parts website but they don't list the earlier Pandas, however if you look at the earlier 90s registration Puntos they seem to list the earlier belt for them. Give S4p a ring https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/ they are a very helpful and knowledgeable bunch of people and, if it's available, will be able to help - have car details like VIN, year of manufacture, Reg No. handy when you ring. If you need a few bits and pieces like service stuff you should be able to get over their free shipping limit which makes a lot of sense. There was also a forum discount code which you can access by making a contribution to forum funds. Even a very small donation "opens the door". Good luck.

Edit. On reflection, the earlier engine - with timing marks on both cam and crank pulley - was used across the Fiat range and is the engine which uses this courser pitch belt. There are going to be a lot of them still running around, especially in warmer countries where rust isn't such a problem. I'd be very surprised if a competent Factor couldn't "rustle" one up for you pretty quickly and at a good price.

 

[tobywood13]

Thanks Jock, definitely the courser pitch that I need. I’ll try S4P like you suggested.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks Jock, definitely the courser pitch that I need. I’ll try S4P like you suggested.

Do let us know how you get on please?

 

[tobywood13]

I’ve done some research and used ePER to locate the part numbers. I think 1993 may have been a crossover year where two types of belt were used; one with 104 teeth, another with 125 teeth. Inputting my car’s details prompts me to buy the 125 tooth one, which is what I received the other day and doesn’t work. ePER part numbers below:

7554701 - 104 teeth (older cars up to 1993?)
46750865 - 125 teeth (newer cars 1993 onwards?)

As I’m in quite a rush with an MoT coming up this week I’ve ordered one of the 104 teeth belts online, hopefully that fits. If not, I’ll have to rebook the MoT and will give S4P a ring to see if they know more about it. On their website they don’t seem to list classic Panda parts, but I’m sure they can dig something up.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I’ve done some research and used ePER to locate the part numbers. I think 1993 may have been a crossover year where two types of belt were used; one with 104 teeth, another with 125 teeth. Inputting my car’s details prompts me to buy the 125 tooth one, which is what I received the other day and doesn’t work. ePER part numbers below:

7554701 - 104 teeth (older cars up to 1993?)
46750865 - 125 teeth (newer cars 1993 onwards?)

As I’m in quite a rush with an MoT coming up this week I’ve ordered one of the 104 teeth belts online, hopefully that fits. If not, I’ll have to rebook the MoT and will give S4P a ring to see if they know more about it. On their website they don’t seem to list classic Panda parts, but I’m sure they can dig something up.

If you do a search there are a number of other specialist suppliers - Alfashop, Ricambio and others - but so far I've always managed to get what I need from either my local Factor (who seems to have benefitted from becoming part of the NAPA organisation recently) or S4p. I default to S4p when more specialist parts are needed.

I keep some of the old belts hanging up in my workshop because I find they can be very useful due to being so strong - I recently made a sling type handle for lifting one of my big batteries from one - and guess what? there's one of Felicity's old belts still hanging there! It's by far the thinnest amongst them! Anyway, it's a 104 tooth belt and the lettering is almost legible. It's a Gates powergrip - no surprise there as that's my "go to brand". The numbers are not so easy to make out due to wear, but I think they are: 5030 XS (I'm pretty confident about those) 96104 x 15mm - the 9 could be a 0 but is more likely a 9, likewise the 0 could be a 9 but more likely a 0. Sorry, it's a belt which I changed after it had done 5 years on the car so the lettering is pretty worn.

I've noticed that, broadly speaking and only what I've observed from the cars I've worked on, the older courser toothed belt runs on engines with the stamped out steel cam pulley - like the one in your picture at the start of this thread, The later engines used a cast type pulley and seem to use the finer pitch belts, as do the engines with the VVT pulley. I'm not sure if there is more than one belt spec for the later engines, I've never bothered to look into it as I just order up the belt I need using, usually, the reg no these days and, quickly visually compare old and new before fitting (remember when it was always the VIN/Chassis number you older guys?)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If you do a search there are a number of other specialist suppliers - Alfashop, Ricambio and others - but so far I've always managed to get what I need from either my local Factor (who seems to have benefitted from becoming part of the NAPA organisation recently) or S4p. I default to S4p when more specialist parts are needed.

I keep some of the old belts hanging up in my workshop because I find they can be very useful due to being so strong - I recently made a sling type handle for lifting one of my big batteries from one - and guess what? there's one of Felicity's old belts still hanging there! It's by far the thinnest amongst them! Anyway, it's a 104 tooth belt and the lettering is almost legible. It's a Gates powergrip - no surprise there as that's my "go to brand". The numbers are not so easy to make out due to wear, but I think they are: 5030 XS (I'm pretty confident about those) 96104 x 15mm - the 9 could be a 0 but is more likely a 9, likewise the 0 could be a 9 but more likely a 0. Sorry, it's a belt which I changed after it had done 5 years on the car so the lettering is pretty worn.

I've noticed that, broadly speaking and only what I've observed from the cars I've worked on, the older courser toothed belt runs on engines with the stamped out steel cam pulley - like the one in your picture at the start of this thread, The later engines used a cast type pulley and seem to use the finer pitch belts, as do the engines with the VVT pulley. I'm not sure if there is more than one belt spec for the later engines, I've never bothered to look into it as I just order up the belt I need using, usually, the reg no these days and, quickly visually compare old and new before fitting (remember when it was always the VIN/Chassis number you older guys?)

As I was hanging that belt back on the hook in the garage I noticed a couple of other Fiat belts - there's about 20 of them hanging there in total, but the others are mostly VAG with a few "foreigners" like from my boy's old Astra - I really should chuck some of them out! These two are from Becky, our present 2010 1.2 Panda without VVT and my older boy's 2012 1.4 Punto which was a VVT engine (I say "was" because it's no longer with us RIP Punto, it was nice knowing you) Both these belts are of the finer pitch type but are identical having 129 teeth each. Both these engines are standard single cam FIRE engines. As I said above I've never thought much about how many different belts there may be for this basic FIRE engine type but what with the earlier 104 tooth belt, then the 125 tooth one you've found and now these 129 tooth ones I have, it looks like there may be quite a number of them. Have to say though, I can't remember being supplied with the wrong belt by the factors and I've only ever ordered maybe a couple of belts from websites as I find the difference in price compared to my factor to be too small to worry about and I like being able to just return to the factor in a few minutes if they do supply something I need to change. So belts are not something I've spent much time thinking about.