Technical Timing Belt Job SOS...

[SB1500]

Hi all, so I did all of the service items I've been talking about on the 2015 1.2 Panda Pop. The only wrong part was the aux belt (looked twice as long, AC model one perhaps? - anyway, putting the old one on for now, not a show stopper).

All was well from start to finish for the most part and everything (bar the brake fluid) was done. But initially the car wouldn't start, I suspected aux belt was loose. Tightened it, it started up but was incredibly noisy.

Went to adjust it again, car wouldn't start.

Looked in the air box, the little thicker pipe running out from the main 'down' hole under it was clogged severely, and that gunk was now on the throttle valve... cleaned that all out - the car started again.

The noise was very bad, definitely felt auxiliary belt related as the car could drive and rev, and it would be noisier as the car revved up and disappear when clutch in or out of gear.

I brought the car back to the garage this morning, Initially I thought I missed the little 'dot' on the crank pulley (bottom big cog, right?) was misaligned. Took that apart, made sure it was right, cleaned the little sensor beside it and all. Checked it was connected. Did some tightening / loosening the alternator - if too tight, the car wouldn't start but would try to.

Plugged in the car scanner, P0340 Crankshaft sensor issue. This is the sensor underneath, next to the oil filter, which points right at the bottom big pulley right?

I looked at the wiring, seems okay, cleaned that with a paper towel and some contact cleaner, dried it off. Re-connected it.

Now the car is back to not starting, but trying hard.

From what I can gather online... bad sensor, or bad wiring to the sensor... or worse, timing might be out? - but if the timing was out, or too tight, surely this engine would be toast and already destroyed? Isn't that how these interference engines are?

Edit: My uncle checked the timing belt / tensioner / route / teeth were in place, otherwise I'd rightly conclude that I might have done this wrong without realising. He thought this was all done fine, he's at work today until later so I'm on my own until then. Of course, he could also have misjudged it too but just so you know, someone else with more experience did check it all out before I built it back up, thoroughly.

Anyone got any tips? Debating whether to cancel my plans today.. stay here and strip this right down again, or wait until Sunday and learn more

 

[SB1500]

The car has started fine, ran smoothly enough, can pick up power (although I've avoided doing so as it would sound like it's going to blow up with the whining sound it's making) - so does that rule out timing teeth being out?

 

[A3jeroen]

I 'd say waterpump, tensioner, alternator is on it's way out. What happens without aux belt?

gr J

 

[vexorg]

Is this a VVT engine or not?

Was the waterpump changed with the timing belt?
Was a new tensioner and pulley changed on the timing belt? (cant rememberif it has a seprate pulley on it's own or not).

But as above, try with no aux belt, if quite, feel each of the bearings

 

[SB1500]

I traced the engine light down to a connector missing on the right of the block. That solved the issue of the engine light and it’s running smooth as normal and driving fine. However… there’s a bit of a high pitched whine when driving and idling that’s a little unsteady. I took two videos - I’ll try attach them for you in a min

 

[SB1500]

Videos should be attached

 

[The Panda Nut]

My 2014 car is exactly the same since it was done. Im certain its a dodgy tensioner. I have decided ot wait till its done 1000 mies before worrying too much. We are 10 days in and I think ots a little quieter. It may settle, I canty decide whether to insist on the tensioner being removed. This was a Gates kit. The other two cars that had the belts done before we bought them are nice and quiet. Ruby is my little limo. She looks great whem polished up and I want her to sound good too. It has always been my favourite driver of our Pandas as it was quiet and smooth. I checked the water tonight and it needed half a litre to get it back to the level. I hope thtas just it belching air out. I am so glad I didnt let my daughter have it. It wouldnt have made a good impression.

 

[SB1500]

We’re also suspecting something to do with the tensioner and the fitting process. Too tight perhaps? Spoke to my uncle about it he said it’s not likely to be timing issues as there’d be all sorts of strangeness going on - and some other threads I’ve found on here support that with what the owners reported and then had to refit the belt.

Until the correct aux belt comes we’re going to let it be driven a few days - we’re confident nothing too major is off and at most, perhaps an adjustment of the tensioner. But how do we know if it’s defective? (Or damaged from fitting), and how should it be tensioned? How tight etc.

Appreciate anyone and everyone’s feedback. Thankfully, not in the situation of the first post since plugging in that connector.

 

[SB1500]

Still needing some advice... if anyone is following this

The initial problem of not starting etc is solved - it was a connector unplugged.

The car is driving great and as normal now - but it's incredibly noisy like a whine. In post #6 I have shown it on video. You can hear the whine as I drive around at a low speed.

The new auxiliary belt is on its way as they sent me one about twice the length. When I fit this, I will mess with the tensioning of the alternator / aux belt and test drive it to see if that indeed cures the whine - but I can't imagine it will. Even the old overdue belt is unlikely to have stretched enough to make a difference. But can the risk of oil / coolant splashes on the existing belt / alternator pulley be the culprit to this noise?

My other theory is the timing belt is too tight - tensioner incorrectly tensioned? But how can I be sure... I don't mind stripping the car down this weekend again to double check everything but if I do, I'd like a solid game plan on what I'm investigating so that I need only do it once. Any tips or suggestions?

I've studied other threads on here with the 1.2 and I'm 99% sure the timing belt teeth are sitting correctly as the car can reach 70mph easily, smoothly and no power issues. Just then noise.

 

[The Panda Nut]

My garage man definitely knows his stuff, and hes done belts for us before. Bearing in mind its his business, I doubt hes done anything wrong, so Im thinking we have a poor quality tensioner. Im going to discuss this in due course and see if we can agree on how to proceed and who pays for what. He tells me that quite a few of the new belt kits make this noise, and I have no reason to doubt this. We have been going to the same place for 10 years plus now and they seem to do a proper job. Im moving towards me providing a FIAT genuine tensioner and then asking him to fit it and send the recently replaced one back.one back. On mine oyu can hear its a very sligh bearingy noise. I noted that jock had whining from his car when he did the belt not that long ago. Im sure you are like me. First worry is that something will go bang with catastrophic outcome, and secomndly Imjust dont like the row and want it quiet again. I dont think its going to fail but its not right and therefore in my eyes potentially unreliable. I shall email S4P and enquire about a tensioner.

 

[SB1500]

My garage man definitely knows his stuff, and hes done belts for us before. Bearing in mind its his business, I doubt hes done anything wrong, so Im thinking we have a poor quality tensioner. Im going to discuss this in due course and see if we can agree on how to proceed and who pays for what. He tells me that quite a few of the new belt kits make this noise, and I have no reason to doubt this. We have been going to the same place for 10 years plus now and they seem to do a proper job. Im moving towards me providing a FIAT genuine tensioner and then asking him to fit it and send the recently replaced one back.one back. On mine oyu can hear its a very sligh bearingy noise. I noted that jock had whining from his car when he did the belt not that long ago. Im sure you are like me. First worry is that something will go bang with catastrophic outcome, and secomndly Imjust dont like the row and want it quiet again. I dont think its going to fail but its not right and therefore in my eyes potentially unreliable. I shall email S4P and enquire about a tensioner.

I've been doing a bit of digging online across many different car timing belt job videos, and a bad tensioner / overly tightened belt / slightly shorter aftermarket belt seems to be most likely. Although of course, member experience on here of the job on actual modern 1.2 Fiat engines would be preferred.
Sadly, to save about £50, my relatives declined the offer of using strictly Shop4Parts genuine parts and fluids for this big service. When we did the timing belt on my 2005 1.2 in 2016 (with advice from the forum) I was using a genuine FCA kit so genuine tensioner... belt .. pump .. all good / no issues that time.

I fear it might be a cheap tensioner too, when I dumped the old parts on Saturday, I kept a hold of the original tensioner - tempted to fit it back on when we 'check' the job and see if it solves the problem. Most videos I found of faulty tensioners had ticks or squeaks though.

I'm not 100% in my head on exactly how the tensioner functions .. I know its job to push and tension the belt, but in terms of how it is to be physically fitted on (orientation, rotation) and the little notch part which can be slid across - which setting should that be on? What is the approach to getting it just right. In my problem here, I could perhaps have failed to set it correctly leading to this being too tight.

People online also claiming that some car aftermarket belts are tighter than genuine leading to noises like we're experiencing. I am about 95% sure that nothing catastrophic will happen even over years, but I feel a bit of shame that the car worked quietly... now it works loud and sounds like it's in a worse state of repair and whilst my grandmother probably won't care, if it were my car I'd care and for that reason, I want it right - so will continue to investigate

If and when I figure it out, I'll let you know @The Panda Nut - perhaps it will help you in arranging a solution with your mechanic

 

[KPat]

The tensioner notches should line up as so. It will only spring tension one way. This image is from a Gates kit fitted in 2021. Luckily it doesn't wine.

 

[SB1500]

The tensioner notches should line up as so. It will only spring tension one way. This image is from a Gates kit fitted in 2021. Luckily it doesn't wine.

Thank you so much! This is a god send.

Would you know if there is any sort of DIY test between that new cheap off brand tensioner I have fitted, versus the OEM one I've removed to do a check and see if the new one is somehow a dud or worse quality so I can make an informed choice to refit the original, or stick with the new cheap one?

 

[Panda IIs]

Still needing some advice... if anyone is following this

The initial problem of not starting etc is solved - it was a connector unplugged.

The car is driving great and as normal now - but it's incredibly noisy like a whine. In post #6 I have shown it on video. You can hear the whine as I drive around at a low speed.

The new auxiliary belt is on its way as they sent me one about twice the length. When I fit this, I will mess with the tensioning of the alternator / aux belt and test drive it to see if that indeed cures the whine - but I can't imagine it will. Even the old overdue belt is unlikely to have stretched enough to make a difference. But can the risk of oil / coolant splashes on the existing belt / alternator pulley be the culprit to this noise?

My other theory is the timing belt is too tight - tensioner incorrectly tensioned? But how can I be sure... I don't mind stripping the car down this weekend again to double check everything but if I do, I'd like a solid game plan on what I'm investigating so that I need only do it once. Any tips or suggestions?

I've studied other threads on here with the 1.2 and I'm 99% sure the timing belt teeth are sitting correctly as the car can reach 70mph easily, smoothly and no power issues. Just then noise.

Eliminate the serpentine belt by removing it and starting the engine; takes the guess work out of the equation!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Fiat original tensioners from S4P are £43.075 including VA robbery T, and in stock. Notably S4P dont list an alternative tensioner on its own. I shall make an order and it will save the postage by making the base spend more. Mick Holdsworth at S4P just replied so fast he set my phone on fire!

 

[SB1500]

Eliminate the serpentine belt by removing it and starting the engine; takes the guess work out of the equation!

I'll try this first before anything else. For some reason, I didn't compute that this was possible but it makes sense.. 12v battery for starting.

I must admit, the little square battery on this 9 year old not very intensively driven Panda has some incredibly starting power left!

 

[SB1500]

Fiat original tensioners from S4P are £43.075 including VA robbery T, and in stock. Notably S4P dont list an alternative tensioner on its own. I shall make an order and it will save the postage by making the base spend more. Mick Holdsworth at S4P just replied so fast he set my phone on fire!

He's very good. He helped me out with some of the parts needed for this order!

 

[vexorg]

@Pugglt Auld Jock , didn't you mention a noise on some cars after doing the timing belt

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Videos should be attached

Thanks @vexorg Sorry, late to the party again, been doing stuff to do with my brother's estate.

Ok, the noise I'm hearing in this video definitely doesn't sound right. It's not that dissimilar to the noise our Becky makes but ours, and others I've heard, are nothing like as loud. Does sound like something to do with a bearing doesn't it? Tensioner maybe? Running it with the "Fan belt" removed would be a good way to start but if that doesn't stop it I'd be taking the belt guards off and having a careful listen with my listening tube. After some very careful exploration listening to Becky's with my listening tube I can tell you the noise was being created where the belt feeds into/meshes with the camshaft pulley - ie. left side of the pulley looking at the front of the engine. I took the greatest care and quite some time investigating this and I'm very confident that Becky's noise is being generated by the teeth as they mesh with the pulley (sort of a siren effect?). I used a Gates kit which included water pump, tensioner and belt. Now, some 5 years later, the noise is exactly the same as when the belt was fitted. It'll be renewed this year when I get round to it and I'm going to try a genuine Fiat belt just to see if there's any difference.

I don't blame you for being unhappy with your noise, I would be too. The noise needs to be traced to it's source.

Mick at Shop4parts? aye, a very helpful chap and easy to speak to. Has helped me more than once.

 

[SB1500]

Thanks @vexorg Sorry, late to the party again, been doing stuff to do with my brother's estate.

Ok, the noise I'm hearing in this video definitely doesn't sound right. It's not that dissimilar to the noise our Becky makes but ours, and others I've heard, are nothing like as loud. Does sound like something to do with a bearing doesn't it? Tensioner maybe? Running it with the "Fan belt" removed would be a good way to start but if that doesn't stop it I'd be taking the belt guards off and having a careful listen with my listening tube. After some very careful exploration listening to Becky's with my listening tube I can tell you the noise was being created where the belt feeds into/meshes with the camshaft pulley - ie. left side of the pulley looking at the front of the engine. I took the greatest care and quite some time investigating this and I'm very confident that Becky's noise is being generated by the teeth as they mesh with the pulley (sort of a siren effect?). I used a Gates kit which included water pump, tensioner and belt. Now, some 5 years later, the noise is exactly the same as when the belt was fitted. It'll be renewed this year when I get round to it and I'm going to try a genuine Fiat belt just to see if there's any difference.

I don't blame you for being unhappy with your noise, I would be too. The noise needs to be traced to it's source.

Mick at Shop4parts? aye, a very helpful chap and easy to speak to. Has helped me more than once.

First port of call will be trying to see if the aux belt removed gets rid of the sound. Though I fear it might be like yours, with the noise coming from the timing belt. I definitely think the tensioner has something to do with it as I pretty much slid the old one off, and the new one on without really understanding the orientation / settings but now I have the photo above to refer to

I would have thought Gates kits would be up there with OEM, though none of us ever had this noise from new on the original parts so perhaps it's a side effect of the aftermarket bits

Sad to hear that even after 5 years the sound doesn't go away.

I will get to the bottom of it, even if it means buying an OEM kit and doing the job again - I was already a fan of genuine parts but this would cement that logic for good if it turns out to be the cause.