Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[Franklux]

Having an Abarth 500C with the MTA gearbox, this thread has always featured prominently in my browsing history.
I can recommend watching this and visiting these guys https://www.soviautoricambi.com/categorie/cambi-robotizzati-1430.aspx for spares.

 

[RIP500]

I’m sad to be having to post on here, but the day has come that my 2014 Fiat 500 (0.9L Turbo Twin Air Dualogic - second hand) has messed up big time. It’s got less than 82000km’s on it and yet I believe I may be in need of a gearbox replacement. Note: I’m not a car person generally and have always been an auto-only driver, so some terminology I’m iffy on.

It has had on and off problems with things like slipping into N while driving (very unsafe) + not wanting to leave neutral when started up - but both of these have usually been remedied by turning it on and off (sometimes a few times or sometimes waiting a few minutes between) + sometimes feeling a little clunky going between 2nd & 3rd + sometimes shaking a little more than normal when idling. I tried to get it in at the local Fiat shop a month or two ago because I was getting concerned about the danger the car randomly stopping on the highway could pose, however they said they only had one guy who could look at the issue (for over $300aud to just look, not do anything else) and he was away on break and then booked up solidly, meaning it was a 3 month waitlist.

Now the car is stuck - it’s super shaky/rattly, won’t go into gear, is going limp (??), when the mechanic I got to come look at it (to decide if it needs to be towed to Fiat) managed to get it to shift to R it made screeching noises. The error codes he got (using a SOLUS Legend) were:
P1810- Clutch System
P2917 - Gearbox Sub - System
P2914 - Gearbox Sub - System
P060A - Refer to OEM repair information for code description
P2916 - Gearbox Sub - System
P2915 - Gearbox Subsystem

All of which are transmission codes (I believe). He was shocked with those errors considering the km’s and felt pretty certain no user error could have contributed (which this thread seems to affirm), especially as it was only transmission errors the car had, nothing else messing up. As I’m in Australia basically no one but Fiat will touch these things when it comes to repairs & he seemed to think gearbox replacement was the most likely answer I will get from Fiat. The estimated price range for a replacement gearbox is apparently going to be in the range of $5-6K AUD.

The cars got a value of somewhere around $10-13K if it was fully functional and maybe around $2-3K in its current state, so anyone got opinions for me on whether it’s worthwhile for me to replace the gearbox then keep/sell (& risk there being other costs if the new gearbox doesn't fix it & there being a longgg wait for repairs), cut my losses and sell as is, or if theres any other repair options that could potentially be options??

Has anyone had the same errors/symptoms (I know many have had similar)? Or does anyone have an idea on what the cause of the transmission faults could be?

 

[steveras57]

Dualogic is IMO a crock of!
Do you want to spend 6k to have a car worth maybe10k at best and the thought that the dam thing could F*** up again at any time through no fault of your own! .
Do you really want to live with the constant worry? Sell the dam thing off now cheap and put the money you get + what you would have spent on repairs towards a decent Japanese small automatic and save yourself tons of aggravation and stress!.
Dont like to turn folk away from Fiat but the Dualogic box has caused so many people trouble over the years they aint worth the effort!.

 

[jrkitching]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Some thoughts...

- repairing it will probably cost more than you think

- selling it 'as is' will probably get you more than you think

- once repaired, it will probably be worth less than you think

- having it repaired means more stress and uncertainty

- getting out now means you walk away from the stress and uncertainty.

 

[steveras57]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Some thoughts...

- repairing it will probably cost more than you think

- selling it 'as is' will probably get you more than you think

- once repaired, it will probably be worth less than you think

- having it repaired means more stress and uncertainty

- getting out now means you walk away from the stress and uncertainty.

Well done JR for putting it so much more politely than me!

 

[puntodeltathema]

If you have a heavy vibration/shaking this is likely to be the dual mass flywheel breaking up. I suspect your faults are that (so new clutch and flywheel needed) plus a need for an overhaul of the hydraulic actuator (given the prior slipping into N issue). In the UK both of these things would cost around GBP 1700 combined. Appreciate getting someone to do it where you are may be an issue, though in the UK actuators can be refurbed by mail order.

 

[EllieGG]

Hi, I have 2009 fiat 500 dualogic. I bought it in January this year and it has since gone into neutral whilst driving twice when going about 40mph. A transmission garage said it showed no faults so the dealer I got the car from say they can’t fix it! Any advice please??

 

[steveras57]

Hi, I have 2009 fiat 500 dualogic. I bought it in January this year and it has since gone into neutral whilst driving twice when going about 40mph. A transmission garage said it showed no faults so the dealer I got the car from say they can’t fix it! Any advice please??

sell it! now.

 

[jrkitching]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear that your car has a problem.

A transmission garage said it showed no faults

I would expect to find a stored fault code if the car went into neutral uncommanded whilst driving. Specialist FIAT diagnostic software is needed to read transmission fault codes; it's possible that the place you took it didn't have this. A generic code reader would be unlikely to show anything at all.

There are folks on this forum who have this software and may be able to read any fault codes; check here to see if any of them are nearby.

sell it! now.

...because it will get worse over time until the transmission fails completely and leaves you stranded at the roadside.

How long that will take, no one can say.

But it will, and when it does, it won't be economically repairable and your car will be essentially worthless.

 

[puntodeltathema]

Hi @EllieGG - well I expect that makes you feel better?! Despite the doomsters it is possible to repair your car. It likely needs a gearbox actuator refurb which can be viewed as a (albeit major) service procedure on the Dualogic cars. I have helped people with many of these, in conjunction with a specialist refurbisher I work with, albeit one needs to budget about GBP900, or maybe worst case up to 1700 if it also needs a pump and clutch. Not sure whereabouts in Kent you are (I'm in Tonbridge) but drop me a personal message if you like. (Auto 500 on google).

 

[EllieGG]

Hi @EllieGG - well I expect that makes you feel better?! Despite the doomsters it is possible to repair your car. It likely needs a gearbox actuator refurb which can be viewed as a (albeit major) service procedure on the Dualogic cars. I have helped people with many of these, in conjunction with a specialist refurbisher I work with, albeit one needs to budget about GBP900, or maybe worst case up to 1700 if it also needs a pump and clutch. Not sure whereabouts in Kent you are (I'm in Tonbridge) but drop me a personal message if you like. (Auto 500 on google).

Hi, thank you for your reply. I am unable to message you yet as I haven’t started enough posts. Can you please message me so I can reply. I’m in Rochester so not too far from you. Thank you!

 

[Pearl500]

I made a separate post regarding my daughter's dualogic issues with her fiat 500 slipping out of gear and not going into reverse . I have a code reader ,not a top of the range one but just wondering if it would be able to tell me anything as I know you sometimes need a certain kind of code reader .mine is just a kingbolen ya200 obd2.

 

[Pearl500]

Hi, I have 2009 fiat 500 dualogic. I bought it in January this year and it has since gone into neutral whilst driving twice when going about 40mph. A transmission garage said it showed no faults so the dealer I got the car from say they can’t fix it! Any advice please??

I have this exact issue with my daughter's .same year aswell.

 

[Pearl500]

Hi, thank you for your reply. I am unable to message you yet as I haven’t started enough posts. Can you please message me so I can reply. I’m in Rochester so not too far from you. Thank you!

I am not far from you and daughter has same issues so I would be interested to know how you get on with yours

 

[Slaartibartfast]

Hi I am new to this forum and am trying to find answers to the following problem we have on my wife's 500 twin-air
The car is 2014 with 18500 miles on the clocks and 1 owner from new and serviced at our local Fiat Dealer all the time .
The Issue is the car will go from automatic into manual mode all by itself ? i can replicate this by purposely knocking the gear lever when auto is already selected . I have been in the passenger seat watching my wife as she gets in and drives and have proved that this happens by itself and she has not accidently touched the lever .
When she arrived home from work a few days ago the check transmission warning came up on the dash for the first time and has not happened since ( a very hot day ) i cannot see any signs of transmission oil leaks and cannot seem to find anybody else with the exact same problem just faults relating to no gear selection at all or stuck in neutral etc none of which we have experienced .Has anybody got an idea what is going on or had the same problem

It’s a long time ago, but did you find a cause and/or solution. Our 500 twin air dualogic has recently started doing same intermittently at 10 years old (7 years in our care)

 

[patatouka]

It’s a long time ago, but did you find a cause and/or solution. Our 500 twin air dualogic has recently started doing same intermittently at 10 years old (7 years in our care)

Get someone to diagnose all the errors in detail - or see if you can provision multiecuscan for yourself (it's not that expensive) - you can either go with one of the proposed garages here (assuming they're nearby) or look toward sending the unit for refurbishment - contrary to what people say here - the actual engineering of the unit is totally fine (I can attest to its reliability) it's the servicing attitude and support from Fiat that is/has suffered in certain places (certainly in the UK it's the case) - plus the fact that not many mechanics understand or are willing to learn how it works.

 

[steveras57]

Get someone to diagnose all the errors in detail - or see if you can provision multiecuscan for yourself (it's not that expensive) - you can either go with one of the proposed garages here (assuming they're nearby) or look toward sending the unit for refurbishment - contrary to what people say here - the actual engineering of the unit is totally fine (I can attest to its reliability) it's the servicing attitude and support from Fiat that is/has suffered in certain places (certainly in the UK it's the case) - plus the fact that not many mechanics understand or are willing to learn how it works.

And previous owners often dont service them to schedule and use dealers that actually know what they are doing using the proper spec parts and fluids!

 

[patatouka]

And previous owners often dont service them to schedule and use dealers that actually know what they are doing using the proper spec parts and fluids!

My thoughts exactly - the vast majority of the faults we see here are a) the ones that get reported b) by people that are not necessarily in a position to know whether the service was done correctly (regardless of intent).

I'd venture to say that any incorrect work in DSG boxes (VAG) would yield similar and expensive issues - as that one is even more complex in nature that Selespeeds - same goes for Japanese ones (bar torque converters in old cars - that are usually not serviced that much).

Having a reliable Dual logic unit is not an outlier by any stretch.

 

[Franklux]

My wife has driven our 2012 Abarth 500C SS since new. It now has 103000 KM on it, and the MTA unit finds it hard to select a gear initially. once in, it works fine. I think the clutch is on its last legs, as it's grinding a bit when it eventually engages. After years of research and repair attempts, here's my opinion:
1. The Selespeed unit has been reliable apart from the intermittent inability to select a gear
2. It's repairable - lots of resources online from a total stripdown to sources of parts for repair from https://www.soviautoricambi.com/ or https://www.sequparts.com/product-category/fiat/abarth-500-dualogic-selespeed/

Good Luck!

 

[kaang10]

Merhaba Arkadaşlar

Ben Rakesh, bu foruma yeniyim çünkü yakın zamanda kullanılmış bir Fiat 500L 1.3 Dizel ve bu robot hidrolik Dualogic selespeed güçlü bir araç aldım, bu yüzden endişelerimi bu uzun listeye ekliyorum, umarım birileri dualarıma cevap verir.

Arabayı satın alma işlemi kısa bir süre sonra gösterge panelinde "Şanzımanı kontrol edin" mesajı ve bazen "start/stop mevcut değil" veya "Vites Mevcut Değil" mesajı çalışmaya başladım.

Araç seyir halindeyken boşalıyorken geçiyordu. Bunu çoğu zaman araç otomatik moddayken ve 2. vitesten 3. vitese geçerken boşalırken fark etmiştiniz. Bu durumda 2. vites devam ediyor veya 4. vitesten 3. vites düşerken meydana geliyor.
"Vites Kullanılamıyor" uyarısı genellikle manuel modda sürüş yaparken çalışırken ve manuel olarak 4. vitesten 5. vitese geçtiğinizde ortaya çıkıyor.

Taramayı yaptım ve aşağıda hata kodları var

B1081-14 ::: Durdurma ve Başlatma Rölesi Komutu - Devre Toprağa Kısa Devre veya Açık Depolanmış BCM (Gövde Modülü Kontrol)
P1741-1C ::: Dişli Konum Sensörü - Devre Voltajı TCM'de (Şanzıman Kontrol Modülü) Depolanan Aralık Dışında
P2916-07 ::: Şanzıman Alt Sisteminde Arıza (Beklenmeyen Vites Boşalması) - Mekanik Arızalar TCM'de (Şanzıman Kontrol Modülü) Kaydedildi

Şanzıman sıvısını kontrol ederek iyi görünüyorsun. Yeni akü ve dış sıcaklık sensörü bulunur ve diğer bazı hata kodlarını temizlerler.

Değerli üyelere sorumuz nedir:
1. Vites konum sensörünü sadece tamir edebilir/değiştirebilir miyim?

• Evet ise, bu modelin (1.3 dizel ünite için) vites konum sensörünün OE parça numarası nedir?
• Sensörün nerede bulunduğu, vitesin değişmesi mi yoksa hız hidrolik ünitesinde mi?
• İngiltere veya İrlanda'da servis (parçalar + işçilik) için maliyetimiz nedir?

2. Sorun vites konum sensöründen daha fazlasıysa, olası neden başka ne olabilir ve burada ne yapılması gerekir? Yani, vites konumu sensörü değiştirilmeli mi?
3. Başlat/Durdur sorunu Vites konum sensörü sorunuyla mı bağlantılı? Yoksa ikisi ayrı sorunlar mı?
4. Bir atölye kılavuzu alabilir miyim (İndirme bölümünde bulunan daha kısa İtalyanca sürüm kontrol işlemi, İngilizceye değiştirildim ve yükledim: Aradığım şey, Fiat 500 için sahip olduğumuz yaklaşık 8000 sayfalık ve hata kodu düzeltme sorun kılavuzu gibi eksiksiz bir kılavuz) ve Fiat 500L 1.3 multijet için OE listesi
5. Ben de Onarım sistemini kontrol ettim, ancak bu sorunu düzeltmek için adım adım bir video veya talimat olan var mı? Lütfen bu sorun burada ve tüm dünyada herkes için bir kez olsun düzelsin.

Yardımınız için çok teşekkür ederim.

Aynı sorunu ben de yaşıyorum, lütfen yardım edin. Mekanik bir sorun olduğunu sanmıyorum. Hatayı düzelttiğimde 40-50 km sorunsuz gidebiliyorum, ancak hata oluştuğunda sık sık tekrarlıyor.