Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[Broker1]

Update: Just took the car for a quick test drive (to the shop) myself and as soon as I started the car the mileage started to flash. Went into gear fine and drove well until about a mile when the car started beeping and "N" was displayed on the screen no other warning lights.


I stopped and with the car running I tapped to + and it went into 1st and drove OK. After starting the car back after going to the shop I heard it "clicking" and it seemed to search for a gear for a a few seconds until it found 1st.


Journey home, same thing "Beep Beep" and "N" and again no other warning lights. I will contact a local garage tomorrow to see if they have diagnostic eqpt. and will also get it into my garage and have a look at the fluid level myself (any hints or tips or what I should be seeing would be great)

 

[ahmett]

Update: Just took the car for a quick test drive (to the shop) myself and as soon as I started the car the mileage started to flash. Went into gear fine and drove well until about a mile when the car started beeping and "N" was displayed on the screen no other warning lights.


I stopped and with the car running I tapped to + and it went into 1st and drove OK. After starting the car back after going to the shop I heard it "clicking" and it seemed to search for a gear for a a few seconds until it found 1st.


Journey home, same thing "Beep Beep" and "N" and again no other warning lights. I will contact a local garage tomorrow to see if they have diagnostic eqpt. and will also get it into my garage and have a look at the fluid level myself (any hints or tips or what I should be seeing would be great)

put the car on a stand look below bumper and next to the gearbox through the hole you will see a reservoir with red oil in it. It will show min max so if its below that fill it up. If you see hydraulic fluid leaking from gearbox then you are in trouble, but whatever happens fill up the reservoir to max so you can drive it while you decide on your options. I bet most people who start having problems fill up the reservoir and sell the car to an unsuspecting buyer.


THIS IS TO WARN ANYONE BUYING 2nd HAND DUALOGIC TO CHECK THOROUGHLY THE GEARBOX AND DUALOGIC SYSTEM BEFORE BUYING IT, OR BYE BYE 1000 GBP!

 

[Broker1]

Thanks Ahmett, that's a great help. I am ok with spanners if I know what I am looking at. May I ask, where is the Actuator (which after research could be the issue) and does this need fluid/oil?

 

[Noetic Concordance]

Update: Just took the car for a quick test drive (to the shop) myself and as soon as I started the car the mileage started to flash. Went into gear fine and drove well until about a mile when the car started beeping and "N" was displayed on the screen no other warning lights.

I believe flashing mileage can mean proxy alignment of all the sensors is needed.

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/43928...ace-alpine-now-milage-wont-stop-flashing.html

 

[ahmett]

Thanks Ahmett, that's a great help. I am ok with spanners if I know what I am looking at. May I ask, where is the Actuator (which after research could be the issue) and does this need fluid/oil?

you don't need spanners to check the reservoir or to see if the actuator is leaking.

 

[Broker1]

Thanks again for all of the help and advice. 2 questions:


Could the mileage flashing have anything to do with dropping gears?


Where do I find the actuator and what does it look like?

 

[ahmett]

Thanks again for all of the help and advice. 2 questions:


Could the mileage flashing have anything to do with dropping gears?


Where do I find the actuator and what does it look like?

the actuator is the thing on top of the gearbox = ) its above the reservoir you'll figure it out

 

[Pathaleon]

Thanks again for all of the help and advice. 2 questions:


Could the mileage flashing have anything to do with dropping gears?


Where do I find the actuator and what does it look like?

I believe that the flashing mileage indicates an error or miscommunication in the CAN network. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I've been told previously.

 

[Broker1]

Thanks all, So now I possibly have 2 problems!!!! Flashing mileage = CAN Network & Potential Gearbox Actuator issues.......

 

[Noetic Concordance]

Thanks all, So now I possibly have 2 problems!!!! Flashing mileage = CAN Network & Potential Gearbox Actuator issues.......

Chances are it's the comms errors causing the gearbox malfunction / sensor error in the first place, sadly all too common with Dualogics. Earthing, wiring or other similar issues can cause quite a lot of comms issues and when the gearbox is automatic and relies on several sensors to function then the car either drops out of gear or won't set off at all.

 

[Broker1]

Well, good friend of mine had a look at the car and carried out diagnostics. He has told me that he is 99.9% sure it is a gearbox sensor. This sensor is £279.00 and he will fit it for me. He also rectified the CAN/Proxy issue while he was here. Am I getting away with this lightly (as much as £279 + fitting can be considered lightly)

 

[jrkitching]

Am I getting away with this lightly (as much as £279 + fitting can be considered lightly)

Objectively yes if it provides a permanent fix; otherwise you've spent the best part of £300 getting nowhere.

But £279 for a sensor . Beggars belief, and shows that Fiat will charge whatever they can get away with for parts where you have no alternative.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you that this works.

 

[Noetic Concordance]

Well, good friend of mine had a look at the car and carried out diagnostics. He has told me that he is 99.9% sure it is a gearbox sensor. This sensor is £279.00 and he will fit it for me. He also rectified the CAN/Proxy issue while he was here. Am I getting away with this lightly (as much as £279 + fitting can be considered lightly)

I was told the same sensor cost £40 (+ labour) for my old car, wondering if they replaced the correct sensor then! I paid £100+ labour for replacing Lambda sensor last year so I guess different sensors can vary wildly in price.

 

[Pathaleon]

Well, good friend of mine had a look at the car and carried out diagnostics. He has told me that he is 99.9% sure it is a gearbox sensor. This sensor is £279.00 and he will fit it for me. He also rectified the CAN/Proxy issue while he was here. Am I getting away with this lightly (as much as £279 + fitting can be considered lightly)

Might be worth trying one from a breakers yard first? All depending on the labour required for the fitment of course. If it's easy I'd rather chance the lower price first.

 

[chas379]

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/317011-unexpected-engine-cut-out.html

see this thread

 

[Broker1]

Thanks for the link Chas...The differences are that our engine doesn't cut out and there are no dash warning lights. It seems there are a million things that can go wrong with these things!

 

[Noetic Concordance]

Thanks for the link Chas...The differences are that our engine doesn't cut out and there are no dash warning lights. It seems there are a million things that can go wrong with these things!

What you are experiencing is often the start of problems that culminate in a Christmas Tree dash eventually though... if you do a search for "fiat jumps into neutral".

It's quite possible your issue is JUST the sensor, however an earthing problem could also be frying sensors and mean the problem isn't resolved just by replacing the sensor.

 

[Aussie500nut]

Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

Wife was driving the 500 TwinAir yesterday (Thursday) and the gearbox went into neutral.
She was going into a motorway underpass that has a roundabout each side and stopped right under the motorway in a very dangerous spot

Was exiting the roundabout so it would have been upshifting from 2nd to 3rd, but went into neutral
A little red "car with bonnet up" indicator came on - nothing else
She rang me and I said to shut down and restart which she did, but it would not select 1st gear
No indicator lights came on and the red "car with bonnet up" disappeared - all looked normal
So she tried reverse and it made a horrible crunching sound - her words
Any gear would have meant that she could have moved it away from the "bad" location

So she rang Roadside Assist and they said there would be 30 minute wait
I was only 15 minutes away so I went and redid the restart thing with the same result
No lights in the instrument console and trying to select 1st gear a few clicks
and the crunch when trying to select reverse.

The battery was replaced by Roadside Assist about 12 months back when the car would not start after driving to a supermarket, so that should eliminate the battery

There have been no problems or hiccups with the gearbox or the whole car for that matter
But upon reflection, couple of days back as we left home on a cooler than normal day (for us)
turned left at a "T" intersection about 500 metres from home and as we accelerated away it seemed to miss-fire.
Just a bit of a hesitation then went OK for the remainder of the trip and return.
My wife commented, so it was quite noticeable and was about the same time as a gear change
meaning that it faultered right after the gear change - maybe that was something going wrong then ??

Anyway with trucks missing it by 6" it didn't get flattened in the underpass and finally got towed off to the Fiat dealer
Rang them when I got home and it had just arrived - now booked in for Tuesday for diagnostics
Was lucky in one way as warranty runs out in 8 days time so we dodged that bullet
So assuming that they find it is a warranty issue, my concern is that they will "bodge" it to get it out of warranty and then it becomes my problem - and what a problem
$6000 for the controller !!!!!!!!!

..

..

We both love the little Fiat so will be a hard decision to keep and risk, or sell
Anyway, for now we have to wait and see what they come up with

I have read this thread and ask if there are any issues I should be aware of that might indicate that they are taking the easy/cheap way out ??
Any advice will be appreciated

 

[Aussie500nut]

Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

Update
When it went to the dealer yesterday they said I had to approve a 1hour diagnostic charge of about $150 in case the problem is found not to be covered by warranty ???????????????

Surely if the gearbox stops working I thought it would be warranty as there was no service requirement (as far as I recall) on the Dualogic in the 30K and 45K services that were carried out by Fiat dealers and they did the last service.

A call from them today to say that a preliminary codes check has been done and now needs 3 hours of diagnostics that may find a fault that is not be covered by warranty. Codes indicated a jammed actuator

So I have to approve another 3 hours at close enough to $150 per hour just to find our what is wrong and if they deem that it is not a manufacturing defect I will have to pay for the repair ... plus the towing charges.

They are saying that they have to check to see if we have done anything to cause the failure ...... WHAT THE ???????????

How would I - or my wife jam an actuator ??????? Are they kidding ??????
it is an "automatic" - for sh#ts sake.
They are supposed to be fool proof
Surely, if you press both brake and throttle at the same time, not recommended, they just do brakes - as in fail safe.
Maybe even shift to neutral but they shouldn't "hurt themselves"
Not that this is what happened here - the only controls being touched at the time were the throttle and steering wheel

Until Tuesday

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

So I have to approve another 3 hours at close enough to $150 per hour just to find our what is wrong and if they deem that it is not a manufacturing defect I will have to pay for the repair ... plus the towing charges.

Condolences; this is not a nice place to be.

What you're experiencing mirrors what many have posted about the harsher side of Fiat's warranty . It's like they're assuming it's your fault, then demanding $600 of your money just so they can do a detailed search to find some reason to justify that position.

I have read this thread and ask if there are any issues I should be aware of that might indicate that they are taking the easy/cheap way out ??

Get a list of all parts which have been replaced.

I'd be very suspicious if all they did was to free off a jammed actuator.

Whatever they do now, how can you be expected to have any confidence in the long term sustainability of the car? Even if they replace the entire gearbox and selespeed unit, why should you reasonably expect a new one to last any longer than the old one has? So even in the best possible case, in 3yrs time, you could be looking at a $6000 bill .