Technical TA 4x4 clutch sounds like a cow mooing

[JaffaOrange]

My 2021 Panda TA 4x4 Wild with 6,000 miles makes a strange noise. When pulling away in first gear the clutch makes a sound a bit like a cow’s moo. The noise is most likely to be heard when the engine is cold and pulling away strongly.
Hoping for a bit more info from this forum before I go to see a main dealer and start talking about repair under Fiat guarantee.
Thanks all…

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Not the foggiest, but interested in the diagnostic of this one!

 

[Eltezz]

Mine does this. Disappears once fully warmed up but does it in reverse as well. Plenty of threads about it in the 500 TA section. It appears to be a clutch or release bearing issue that may or may not be cured by fitting an upgraded clutch and release bearing. The general consensus seems to be that it is harmless other than the irritating noise. It only does it while the clutch is slipping and transferring torque so I am not convinced it is the release bearing, as I would expect that to be noisy whenever the clutch is depressed. My personal opinion is that it may be related to where the gearbox input shaft sits in the flywheel - as torque is applied the shaft needs to be supported by this bearing surface and it may be coming from there but others may know better...

If yours is still in warranty I would suggest a dealer visit might be in order.

My clutch is engaging just off the floor so I will have to replace that lot soon so I am not too worried about it.

 

[JaffaOrange]

Thanks for the input - very useful,
Regards

 

[Panda IIs]

Mine does this. Disappears once fully warmed up but does it in reverse as well. Plenty of threads about it in the 500 TA section. It appears to be a clutch or release bearing issue that may or may not be cured by fitting an upgraded clutch and release bearing. The general consensus seems to be that it is harmless other than the irritating noise. It only does it while the clutch is slipping and transferring torque so I am not convinced it is the release bearing, as I would expect that to be noisy whenever the clutch is depressed. My personal opinion is that it may be related to where the gearbox input shaft sits in the flywheel - as torque is applied the shaft needs to be supported by this bearing surface and it may be coming from there but others may know better...

If yours is still in warranty I would suggest a dealer visit might be in order.

My clutch is engaging just off the floor so I will have to replace that lot soon so I am not too worried about it.

Yes, had the same noise (well a noise) when starting from cold and reversing off the drive - as stated all is good once warmed up. Maybe some condensation or moisture playing its part? Never really bothered me since it doesn't get any worse (or better). It "feels" or sounds like something is loose (has larger clearance) when cold, almost like it goes into resonance. I could imagine it might be the release bearing in the fork. See the photo below, some corrosion (fatigue?) where the release bearing sits in the fork and (unrelated) how eccentric the dual mass flywheel becomes when failing which leads to the pressure plate chewing the primary shaft casting. 4x4 TA 2013. These pictures from a second replacement clutch at 84k miles.

 

[Eltezz]

Could well be something like that, there is a definite resonance factor to it as you can vary the sound slightly by the amount of clutch engagement being applied.

Just out of interest, when your DMF failed, did you get much warning in terms of sound/vibration/ whatever?

 

[Panda IIs]

Just out of interest, when your DMF failed, did you get much warning in terms of sound/vibration/ whatever?

This was the second one...

The first was a clutch fail at 48k miles and the bite point was right down on the floor (I had only just taken ownership). The DMF was replaced at the same time (and from the pictures I'm not thinking it was OEM). To get to your question, there was a (more than usual) vibration through the gear stick above 2-3000rpm between 2nd and 3rd gears especially. Between the two clutches the car has done 40k miles and had two learner drivers so I'm not wholly surprised especially if you add in a stop/start commute of 12 miles every day. The damage to the casting was not to the extent that I was too concerned - just a bit of light-weighting! Work done by Alfa/Fiat Workshop in Royston the second time round.

 

[Eltezz]

Thanks, confirms my suspicion that my clutch is getting towards end of life. I would certainly change the DMF at that point as well. The Fiat workshop did the same on my Multijet 4x4 so they can do this one as well. Shame the TA clutch is so short lived but given the amount of gear changes just commuting to work and back I shouldn’t be surprised really.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Mine has started doing this too. It started just after the 5 years mark when the warranty had finished. I am pretty sure its directly related to driving through floods as it started after the first time it really had to paddle and its some form of corrosion related noise. Im suspecting the clutch release bearing or DMF bearing is corroded and / or running dry it does this until its done some work each drive Some days / weeks its been quiet. It is worrying but there are no other symptoms and if I slip the clutch for a while it stops so rusty flywheel also a possibility. Its definitely worse when it gets wet as in the last 10 days. The car has only ever been driven by me and its never been abused so I am certain its not clutch wear. Im thinking of giving the area some PTFE laden penetrating oil, This need careful application to avoid over contamination of the clutch. Something needs the smallest bit of lubrication inside the bell housing. Ive been thinking of chaging the gearbox oil too as its over 25K now. Im also suspicious of the prop shaft bearing. But think this much less likely. At the moment its going to have to get on with it, as I have other fish to fry. Im only mildly concerned but am not going to start taking the gearbox out for this unless it get worse. Its a classic clutch release bearing noise, Again it cannot be worn out and Im certain small amount of the right lubricant will stop it. B annoying though on what I consider to still be a brand new car. Clearly this is fault. My car is 2019. I wonder if we have a bad batch of clutch bearings.
A few years ago I would have done this mileage in 3 months not 5 years. Lack of use is my thought on most likely cause. Last time I heard something similar it it was my Laguna and it was clutch release bearing. At 50k miles I just had the clutch replaced. That car was driven very fast and hard, it also did a load of towing and had a lot of power. Its not getting that luxury treatment at 25K!
I suggest monitor and report back any change, we can all do the same.

 

[euroben]

Sounds like your clutch it on its way out. Mine sounded like that and I hate to tell you but the clutch and dual mass fly replacement cost on the TA 4x4 is very pricey! It’s most likely the release bearing that is making the noise. Mine had water in there and was quite corroded when it was removed.

 

[The Panda Nut]

My car was bought new and has been driven more or less only by me, Its done only 23K and has been doing this for around 10K. Its defintiely not a worn clutch. Its possibly a dry clutch release bearing or a DMF bearing. Using the car more frequently definitely sees the mooing disappear. If I work up the enthusiasm I am going to attempt vacuuming out the bell housing and inspecting with an endoscope. The base cause on mine I am certain has been driving trough floods. It will have to moo a hell of a lot more before its gets taken to bits! Moral of the tale remember its a car not an amphibious vehicle. If the clutch is not slipping, and the gears will change the clutch will be OK, not that matters if the geabox has to be removed to clean and lub a bearing as you need the whole lot chnaged at that point. Ugh.

 

[JayAre]

the clutch and dual mass fly replacement cost on the TA 4x4 is very pricey!

£829 (incl VAT) for new TA clutch, new DMF +labour (member cost earlier this month - sarjay)
Not cheap, but not horrific, and an excellent job done by a forum recommended indie service/repair garage

Post in thread 'Cross 4x4 thrust bearing, bell-housing'
https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/cross-4x4-thrust-bearing-bell-housing.471650/post-4774323