Technical Sump plug size?

[Doofer]

The ever-rising oil level* in my 16v 1.9D is going to get expensive if I get the oil changed by a garage every couple of months, when it gets above the max level.

So my plan is to change the oil myself (never done it before). I'll probably let the surplus volume out once or twice before doing a complete change, as my perfectionism is constrained by financial reality. As I'm expecting this to be needed regularly, I'm looking to order one of these Fumoto valves...

www.quickvalve.co.uk

As expected, their vehicle search doesn't include the Croma (we Croma owners get used to this). So does anyone know the thread size of a Croma sump plug?

They say almost all Vauxhalls use a M14-1.5. However, the Multipla (including 1.9D) is a M22-1.5 and a Marea 1.9JTD is a M18-1.5. I was hoping that every car using this engine would have the same size plug. Or perhaps it's just that their info is a load of Fumoto.

* Reasons discussed on previous threads here. It's caused by the particulate trap regeneration, particularly when the car is used for short journeys. Not unique to the Croma, e.g. this was recently mentioned for a diesel Corsa in Auto Express.

 

[keithglos]

I keep my display on instant MPG, it's the only way I know a regen is in progress. I rarely drive in heavy traffic but have been caught with an incomplete regen. On several occasions I have been stuck at 40 mph, and try to change down a few gears, keep about 3000 rpm going, and drive on until finished.
My local service garage seem surprisingly unaware of the oil dilution problem.
It seems strange that driver interaction and consciousness should be required when in most other aspects of driving they try to keep the driver out of it.

 

[Kenny7]

Hi !
I,ve just bought the new sump plug in FIAT service for FIAT CROMA Diesel 1900 ccm , 150 HP . The thread size is M18x1,5.

 

[Doofer]

Brilliant, thanks.

Modern cars seem to be going the way of PCs. They used to be dumb servants, only doing what they were told. Now they are autonomous and decide for themselves when to do things, and demand that you accommodate their needs. I can't remember the last time I switched on my PC and it didn't tell me about something needing to be done or updated.

How do you tell when it's doing it from the instantaneous mpg? Mine flaps about all over the place anyway. Do you leave it running while parked to melt the bumper or take a surprise mystery tour until it will allow you to park?

I think VWs did have a light to tell you when it was cooking, but too many confused customers thought it was a fault. I don't know whether they still do this - I can understand why they try and conceal that it's doing something.

 

[s130]

Hi !
I,ve just bought the new sump plug in FIAT service for FIAT CROMA Diesel 1900 ccm , 150 HP . The thread size is M18x1,5.

Confirm - M18x1.5

 

[keithglos]

How do you tell when it's doing it from the instantaneous mpg? Mine flaps about all over the place anyway. Do you leave it running while parked to melt the bumper or take a surprise mystery tour until it will allow you to park?

I live in the Cotswolds, and with gentle undulations the instant mpg is usually between 30 and 55. Dpf regen halves this. I suppose in traffic it is difficult to see, and you can't maintain the required temperature in the pipe, I think it's abouut 600C. I get a regen about once a tank fill-up which is usually 400 miles (nowhere near empty). I tend to try and keep the revs up.
I calculate about .5 litre extra is used, and takes about 5 miles, a bit more if off motorway.

 

[DoIDon'tI]

To further add to this - the easy way to tell is on the overrun, normally it will read 99.9 but when the car's regenerating it will either fluctuate or read 50-60 ish. Also, if your stereo is off you'll hear a rumble from the rear of the car just above idle.

I'll be interested to see how you get on with your Fumoto, as I do between two and three oil changes a year it might be worth investing - especially as the sump is alloy and the threads are notoriously fragile.

HTH.

 

[s130]

To further add to this - the easy way to tell is on the overrun, normally it will read 99.9 but when the car's regenerating it will either fluctuate or read 50-60 ish. HTH.

Well spotted. I personally have not noticed this on overun.

 

[Doofer]

Thanks all. Part code F-104N now ordered from quickvalve, £24.47 inc delivery. The N signifies the "nipple" version, which allows a hose to be connected directly to it. Sounds like a fair deal if it fits and works OK. I'll update after I've fitted it.

The only part I'm not looking forward to is taking the old sump plug off. Hopefully lots of cardboard and cat litter trays will avoid the driveway getting ruined. After that I should be able to attach a hose and squirt it straight into the empty bottle that I'll keep.

What are people's opinions about flushing the oil? A few years ago I used to take a previous car to the main dealer for servicing, who routinely flushed it every change. I haven't heard of it since then.

Edit: Found some good info on this. Seems it's not a good idea...

http://www.suite101.com/content/engine-oil-flush-the-pros-and-cons-a137008

 

[DoIDon'tI]

Flushing is definitely not needed on DPF engines, the diesel content of the oil after a couple of regens keeps things clean. Also, good quality oil has a high detergent content.

The only reservation I have about using a valve instead of the sump plug is whether 1. the sump will be completely drained (as the point at which oil leaves the sump will be a couple of mm higher than it was before) and 2. whether the flow rate will be sufficient to carry all the 'sludge' (i.e. accumulated contaminants) out of the sump.

At present, the oil travels forward about 10-12 inches when the sump plug is removed from my 2.4, it might be worth bearing this in mind when positioning your bowl

VW have had problems with their TDI engines due to having their oil changed via the dipstick (i.e. suctioned out), this leaves the 'sludge' behind which over time gets added to and eventually blocks the oil pump pick-up strainer.

HTH.

 

[Doofer]

I wouldn't have thought the thickness of the valve would make much difference. Not compared with the amount of gunk that must be hanging around the other crevices in the engine.

This thing has been on sale in Japan for years, and is officially approved by pretty much all the Japanese car companies.

I did see one tip about oil changing (not related to this valve), which was to jack up one side of the car then the other after emptying to swish the last bit around and out.

I'm still uneasy about emptying black goo out, then putting new oil straight in. I guess if the alternatives have downsides then that's just how it is.

I have about half a litre of the last bottle left. I might try chucking that in while the plug's still open, after it's emptied. This should partially rinse it at least. I think the Croma takes about 4.5 litres (from memory), so perhaps the remaining half-litre from the bottle rinse every time would make sense.

I've ordered my oil today. I think this is what top racing drivers recommend, or something...

http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/Car-Ma...tic-Formula-5w-40-Motor-Oil-5ltr/invt/0286551

About to order the oil filter from fleabay. Proabably also need some axle stands too, after seeing where the filter's tucked away under this thing.

 

[Doofer]

New valve has arrived, not fitted yet. It's extremely solid and well made. On other forums people are concerned about them coming open. The release lever is actually sprung into its locking position. Unless a pebble is capable of pressing the lever against a spring while simultaneously turning it 90 degrees then there's no way this could ever fall open.

It's also entirely made of metal. The valve is a ball valve, so no washers to fail. The only non-metal part is a fibre washer that squeezes against the sump. I don't think these perish as rubber ones do.

So it's a recommendation from me. Still to fit it though.

 

[flateric]

Hi, Can anyone explain what this regen is about. only had my croma a few week's and dont like the idea of droping the oil 3 times a year

 

[s130]

Your Croma is fitted with a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). This is essentially the middle exhaust box on your car.

The DPF is a very fine 'active' filter that traps the diesel soot particles that would otherwise be emitted out of the exhaust.

As the level of contamination/clogging of the DPF increase the engine ECU will decide to "regenerate" the DPF. In the Croma/Fiat and other makes of DPF this is done by injecting extra diesel fuel into the cylinders late in the combustion cycle. This rapidly raises the exhaust gas temperatures.

By raising the temperature of the DPF, via this "regen" process, to over 550 Deg.C the trapped soot in the DPF is burnt off/vapourised thus unclogging the DPF.

Problems with regeneration are:

1) A regen cycle is not initiated till the engine oil reaches a given temperature and the engine has been running for a given preriod and is considered to be stable. If you do multiple short trips resulting in the regen criteria not being met then the DPF remains clogged and gets more clogged.

2) Regeneration is stressful to the engine because of the temperatures generated. If the engine thinks your oil is old, based on miles since the last change it was notified about via the 'oil change' reset (which is separate from the "Service Reset") then it will not initiate a regeneration cycle thus protecting the engine at the expense of further clogging the DPF. Eventually the DPF warning light will come on and dealer forced regeneration will be required. If clogging is really bad then the situation may not be easily recoverable.

3) Partial regeneration. This is where the diesel dilution of the oil can occur. This happens when one repeatedly gets into the normal regeneration cylce but then switch the engine off before the cycle is complete. This leaves the cylinder bores rich with unburnt diesel fuel that then seeps past the piston rings into the sump. Do this regulary then the oil dilution problem occurs.

Hope the above explains what you wanted to know.

One should always ensure that you never do repeated short trips and also ensure that you do some 10 mile plus trips to ensure that regeneration is periodically taking place.

For most all the above is not an issue. The biggest problems occur with school run cars and local shop only trips.

 

[flateric]

Cheers s130. Can you tell me if i can do my own service's and if so can i reset it myself without going to a garage to reset it for me..

 

[Doofer]

You can reset the oil change interval (the important one that concerns the DPF regeneration). You can't reset the service interval (the one that just nags you on the display to tell you a service is due, then gives up after a while).

You need some free software and a cable (roughly £8-ish) from ebay to do this.

The software is from here...

http://www.fiatecuscan.net/

However, the oil change interval can only be reset by paying to register the software with the current version downloadable from there. You need a previous version to reset it without paying money. Search the Croma section for "fiatecuscan" to get the full story.

EDIT: https://www.fiatforum.com/croma/231322-croma-diy-servicing.html
(The ever-helpful S130 answers my dumb questions, including resetting the interval)

 

[s130]

The lateset version of FiatECUScan (V2.5) can do both the Oil and the Service Reset.

Oil reset is via KKL link to ECU. Service is via CAN Bus connection to the intrument head.

As Doofer points out, the earlier free Version 1.6 can do the oil service reset but NOT the mileage service reset.

 

[Doofer]

Am I right in assuming that you need to pay money to register the latest version to do either of these resets? Which isn't a show-stopper - it's still good value compared against dealer charges.

I've never been nagged by the service indicator in mine anyway. The dashboard menu (using the menu/+/- buttons) says a service is due in 0 miles. I'd guess that it wasn't reset at some time in the past (even though it was only ever serviced by the main dealer), so the previous owner got nagged until it gave up. Hopefully once it's given up nagging once, it goes away for ever. So that's an alternative to resetting it.

 

[s130]

If I remember correctly the Mileage/Age service warning packs up nagging you after 1000 miles and there is to my knowledge any side effect of letting this eventually time out other than the dashboard computer service history for the car becomes out of date.

When I serviced my Croma and because the FiatECUScan version that could reset the mileage service was not yet released I decided to do nine service resets in a row using some Snap-On kit that my friendly local independant garage let ME use. With the Croma and Stilo after 9 service resets the warning system is disabled. In the case of the Croma the menu "Service" selection is removed from the menu system.

As pointed out earlier the Oil Resest MUST be done!

With the later versions of FiatECUScan, when Can-Bus support was implemented, then Yani started charging for the "Registered" version.

Look here: http://fiatecuscan.net/SupportedVehiclesList.aspx

Anything in Red requires the registered version.