Well, I'm now out of warranty and in the process of doing a 36K mile service.

Comments thus far:

Air and Cabin filters - dead easy (though dealer broke flimsey cabin filter retaining clip in the past and never told me or bothered to replace filter carrier).

Draining water from diesel filter - a little fiddley but no big deal

Oil filter - nightmare compared the other Fiat cars (prepare to get muckey).
The filter end plate/cover requires a 32mm socket and is at such an angle that the only way I could guarantee a clean drive was with extension bars and angle joint with the wrench situated in the N/S wheel arch.

Sump plug was well and truly cranked in. Force required to release damaged plug drive socket.

Oil service reset with FiatECEScan - works a treat

Parts prices. Horrendous if you go for Fiat Genuine Parts, even if you get trade discount at your Fiat dealer.

Going independant & trade I paid. (add VAT)

Mahle Air Filter - £6.52
Mahle Oil Filter - £6.94
Mahel Fuel Filter - £10.00
FRAM Pollen Filter - £7.20 **
Gates Aux. Drive Belt - £10.74
(Current retail price including VAT for a Fiat aux. drive belt is £28.97)


** Fram filter is for Corse, Vectra, Signum etc. and is same size as Fiat filter but has additional features. 1) strenghtening plastic reinforcement strips at the ends and 2) foam sealing strips along top and bottom of filter. Difficult to explain but because of the strenghtening plastic reinforcement strips I had to fit the filter 180 degrees out regarding marked air flow. Not a problem as this filter is a far better fit an sealing compared to the Fiat one.

A Sump Plug and Dowty washer from Fiat (with discount) cost me over £8.

Thus far I'm finding the service OK to do and with regards to the oil filter if you have a good selecton of drive bars and angle joints then the filter can be done OK BUT you will get muckey.

Service continues tomorrow, weather permitting.

Mine's due a 54k service (interim only), so I've booked it into a local garage for an oil change only for £55. Done in 30 minutes, while u wait.

I'm ordering air and pollen filters online to fit myself. That's pretty much it for the 54k service - I intend to ignore the nag display if it appears.

The main stealer wanted £220 to do this. Of course their highly trained scientists were also going to check that the wipers work and top up the windscreen washer too (and charge an extra fiver for the H2O "fluid" of course).

While I'm at it, I've ordered a K&N air filter and may do the Vectra C air box mod too.

Job's a guddun.

Please ENSURE that your local guarage DOES and can reset the Oil Service Change counter/warning. If they do not do this the you will at some poin in time be presented with oil change warnings AND IF YOU IGNORE these then you will damage your DPF filter and this will cost you £1000 to £2000 to correct.

Thanks, I didn't know that. They have already said they can't reset it.

I'm planning on keeping this car until it dies, so I'm happy to invest in a DIY solution. Will start my research, starting with the option above.

I've been reading up on FiatECUScan. I'd be very grateful if you could please confirm that I'm understanding this correctly...

1. There is a seperate "service" and "oil change" reset.
2. FiatECUScan can, at the moment, only reset the "oil change" one.
3. If I reset the "oil change" one and don't bother with the "service" one then I will be nagged but no harm will result.

Looks like useful software though. Looking forward to messing about with it.

Doofer said:

I've been reading up on FiatECUScan. I'd be very grateful if you could please confirm that I'm understanding this correctly...

1. There is a seperate "service" and "oil change" reset.
2. FiatECUScan can, at the moment, only reset the "oil change" one.
3. If I reset the "oil change" one and don't bother with the "service" one then I will be nagged but no harm will result.

Looks like useful software though. Looking forward to messing about with it.

Click to expand...

1) Correct - oil change is determined by the ECU and is variable but Fiat/handbook say change oil every 18K miles even if oil warning does not come on. The "service" is I think is set to 12K or 18K miles and/or 365 days.

2) Correct - oil only but Service expected in next release (I believe)

3) Correct - The service will only nag you for I think 1000 miles and then shuts up. I don't think it fires off again 12K/18K miles later.

What oils are DIY folks using?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
55 Croma II 1.9/16v 150hp: Quantum Platinum (VAG/Castrol) SAE 5W-40

I fully researched this a while ago, focussing on easily obtainable products and found the products below. I currently us the Castrol one.

Sorry about the formatting as but the order of the fields is

Make Product Fuel Composition SAE ACEA API BMW DC/MB FIAT GM VW

Selenia WR Diesel Synthetic Base 5W-40 B3/B4 CF 229.3 9.55535-M2 LL-B-025 505.00/502.00

Castrol Edge Turbo Diesel Synthetic Full 5W-40 A3/B3/B4 SL/CF 505.01/505.00/502.00


Mobil Synt S Petrol/Diesel Synthetic 5W-40 A3/B3/B4 SL/SJ/EC/CF LL-98 229.3 LL-B-025 505.00/502.00

BP Visco 5000 Petrol/Diesel Synthetic Full 5W-40 A3/B3/B4 SL/CF LL-98 229.3 505.00/502.00

s130 said:

I fully researched this a while ago, focussing on easily obtainable products and found the products below. I currently us the Castrol one ...

Click to expand...

Thanks s130, but I’m thinking - have folks stayed with the spec given in early handbooks, or moved-on to later issue handbook specs e.g. 9.55535-S1, SAE 5W-30, ACEA C2?

My handbook (I think) gives 9.55535-M2 or certainly Selenia WR SAE 5W-40. Whereas I notice later issue handbooks give 9.55535-N2 - or 9.55535-S1 (Selenia WR PE SAE 5W-30). Vectra-Charlie & Signum handbooks also (I believe) give SAE 5W-30 oil - not sure about Saab 9-3 (?)

I’m currently using Quantum Platinum (by VAG/Castrol) SAE 5W-40 but at next change considering a 9.55535-S1 SAE 5W-30 qualification.

Anyone with early Croma II’s moved to 9.55535-S1, SAE 5W-30 oils?

------------------------------
55 Croma II 1.9/16v 150hp (49.2K mls)

Will this
USB-409-1-KKL-VAG-COM-OBD-2-II-VW-AUDI-SKODA-SEAT-Cable-

and Fiat ecuscan software work on my Petrol 2.2 Croma 2006?

I'm getting my oil changed for £55, so I don't expect them to be using £60 oil. I'll make sure it's the correct grade and doesn't smell of chips though.

Am I the only one who suspects that designer-branded oil may be, erm, snake oil?

Thanks for all the info on FiatECUScan, s130. I'm about to order a fleabay VW cable as recommended by them. Looking forward to mucking about with it (carefully!).

salmmi said:

Will this
USB-409-1-KKL-VAG-COM-OBD-2-II-VW-AUDI-SKODA-SEAT-Cable-

and Fiat ecuscan software work on my Petrol 2.2 Croma 2006?

Click to expand...

I've yet to try it myself, but their website recommends the VW (VAG) cable. I'm about to order one myself. By the way, you didn't provide a link, but it sounds sensible based on my limited knowledge.

I think some soldering may be needed within the connector to talk to different computers within the car though - one wire needs to be moved depending on what you want to do.

Doofer said:

I'm getting my oil changed for £55, so I don't expect them to be using £60 oil. I'll make sure it's the correct grade and doesn't smell of chips though.

Am I the only one who suspects that designer-branded oil may be, erm, snake oil?

.

Click to expand...

The important thing to ensure with the engine oil is the low ash rating, because of the DPF filter. i.e. a minimum B3/B4 CF rating. Many high performance petrol engine oils are NOT suitable for modern DPF equiped low emission rated diesel engines.

That told me then. At least one of us know what they're on about, and it isn't me. Bloomin' complicated things these cars.

Doesn't the soot result from the diesel, not the oil? Or does it use some oil to burn off the soot in the exhaust? If so then doesn't that mean the oil level would continually deplete?

Doofer said:

Am I the only one who suspects that designer-branded oil may be, erm, snake oil?).

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by "Designer Branded". If by designer you are referring to Selenia/Castrol/BP/ etc. verses Comma, Halfords and other aftermarket branded oils then I think you are wrong.

Any oil, regardless of make and legitimately tested to SAE or other applicable standards is a good oil. Full stop. Comma, Halfords etc. all provide perfectly good quality oils and all pass their respective standards.

For all you or I know Halfords oil X is the same a Mobil oil Y.

Personally I think that all you can rely on is that a top brand oil such as Mobil X, or Castrol X will probably pass the base standard tests with a better pass mark than Comma X and Halfords X. (unless they are identical oils but branded differently).

Having said this the base standard test consists of many sub tests and there will be horse trading going on all over the place, except again where the oils are identically sourced but differently branded.

Given the above ramble then these are my guiding rules:

1) Oil must meet manufacturer's (international) ratings for the specific application

2) Where possible go for the larger brands, e.g. Castrol, Mobil, Exxon/Esso but be price conscious of your choice compared to say Comma or Halfords brands.

3) There is nothing wrong with Comma or Halfords or other after market oils that meet all the specs. You might just want to give them a little more tolerance regarding oil change intervals depending on how hard you have driven or loaded your vehicle.

A point in favour of a top make oils/pruducts from say Castol/Esso/Exxon/BP etc. is there will be better manufacturer technical support. I obtained loads of info directly from Castrol that (I can't be sure of this but based on past experience) I would not have been able to get from say Halfords.

When we were sprinting / tracking our cars with Esso EX2 oil I was able to actually return an oil sample to Esso for analysis as I was concerned about certain aspects of a batch of oil I had purchased. They tested free of charge and reported back accordingly.

So, from the above you can see there is a wide mix of things to consider.

To add a little more perspective to why/what I say. My dad worked for Shell and Esso (for nearly 50 years) in the lubrication business (engines/gearboxes). His advice was buy a good reputable standard passing brand. I know he endorsed all those makes Shell/Esso/Mobil/BP/etc. and as a chemist was involved in product formulation and supply to other oil brands/makes/companies.

Look at all forms of motorsport, especally F1. These oil/fuel companies are at the top of their game and fighting for wins. They are all good otherwise they would not be selected by the top teams. When is comes to Joe public all brands are meeting and exceeding standards and then looking for that little extra "something" to attract you to gain market share. Could be price, magnetic properties, reduced friction, low evaporation, better fuel mileage, better starting (lower stiction) circulation, enhanced heat duration, etc. etc. etc. Nothing different to the washing up, dishwasher or general detergent battles that go on every day on TV, EXCEPT that with oils you can read the specs off the side of the can or website to know what standards they pass.

So for you and me as long as we choose a standard passing brand, are happy with the price and availability then we have a good quality oil. Beyond that you enter the claim and counter claim game and life is too short for that.

Some of the oils/fluids I've use over the last 37 years with no complaints are: (incomplete list) Shell, Esso, BP, Selenia, Duckams, Castrol, Texaco, Halfords and Comma.

A further few points to bear in mind is this - All the product producers analyse and test their competitors products looking for some small edge, over and above the strict independant standards test, that they tink they can capitalise on. Read this as "were all the same but.....".

Sorry for the long post but I hope I've provided an informational and unbiased view on oil and and other fluid selection.

Finally the emotive and thorny subject of additives, especially fuel enhancers and cleaners.

The bottom line is this. Shell/BP/Esso etc. and sub brands such as Sainsburys and Tescos supply perfectly good fuel. The point to note is that these brands use all sorts of additives for cleaning, low tar deposits, etc. etc. but they use these additives in moderation. They play a delicate game of compromise. A good every day life example is glass and the dishwasher. The occasional wash of a glass in the dishwasher gets it really clean but has no long term effect. Do this every wash/day and you know what happens to the glass.

Same with fuels. You must / should be able to run them 100,000s of miles with no engine damage. However the occassional Redex or other cleaning additive may/do provide that cleaning benefit with no long term damage if used sparingly. We as humans do exactly the same. We wash with soap and water till occasionally we resort to 'cleaning spirits'. Were we to use 'cleaning spirits' every day then we would be having real problems.

Bottom line is this. All good makes of bulk and longer term usage products have a massive global market an reputation to uphold, be it oils, fuels or other fluids. The manufacturers will try to do everything they can to support and defend their/you interests for the long term. Your "snake oil" term more appropriately applies to others...........

Doofer said:

That told me then. At least one of us know what they're on about, and it isn't me. Bloomin' complicated things these cars.

Doesn't the soot result from the diesel, not the oil? Or does it use some oil to burn off the soot in the exhaust? If so then doesn't that mean the oil level would continually deplete?

Click to expand...

If your head is not hurting mine certainly is All I can suggest is that you do some Googling on "oil specifications", "SAE", "CF3/CF4" etc. Wikipedia have some good articles as well.

Have a read here: http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0610dp_low_ash_oil_news/index.html

Bottom line is buy only a product that meets the vehicle manufacurer's specifications.

Doofer said:

Doesn't the soot result from the diesel, not the oil? Or does it use some oil to burn off the soot in the exhaust? If so then doesn't that mean the oil level would continually deplete?

Click to expand...

Correct in most respects. There hasn't been an internal combustion engine built yet that will not use some oil in its lifetime, fact. The idea of engines 'burning' oil is only true if you don't use synthetic based oil, as synthetic doesn't actually burn. Engines are designed to be oiltight but wear and tear take their toll.

Diesel produces soot, 'burnt / used' oil produces residue which will coat the operative surfaces of the DPF over time and reduce its efficiency, eventually requiring its removal and cleaning/replacement as necessary. The ash is produced by the residue 'decomposing' when the DPF regenerates.

By specifying an oil which produces as little ash as possible, this procedure will be delayed as long as possible - with any luck the DPF may go a very long time between cleaning.

The oil level does deplete, but not by a lot (unless you have a VW / Audi) and this depletion is largely negated by the addition of a little bit of diesel that gets past the piston rings during DPF regeneration. The point to remember is that the manufacturer & owner should both be considering long-term effects and usage when choosing service consumables.

The trouble is that some folks still think you can run diesels producing nearly 100HP/Litre on any old oil, then sell the cars on before the consequences become apparent If you're planning to keep your car long term, then I'd suggest that decent oil is quite cheap compared to turbos and engine rebuilds

As a parting shot, I have serviced my own vehicles for the past 25 years and have used Halfords own in many of them. Yes, it passes the tests (as Nick says), but my experience is that it degrades faster than the 'branded' ones. I happily used Halfords oil in my old 1.6 Punto as I could get an engine for £150 and change it myself if needs be, but something tells me I won't be able to do the same for my 2.4JTD as just the turbo would cost over twice that

Oil is cheap engineering, as my Father-in-law says.

HTH.

Thanks for all the info again. As it happens the garage didn't have the right oil in stock, so I had to go and get some from a shop. I got this...

http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/view/6/176/SYD5L

I think it's the posh end of the range of a cheapo brand. £29 for 5L, plus £28 for the oil change labour and filter.

Glad I checked with them though - they said their database listed it as some other grades (can't remember what). Whether true or not I don't know, but in future I'll take my own oil every time. The cost was still roughly the same, but at least I know it's the right stuff.

DoIDon'tI said:

and have used Halfords own in many of them. Yes, it passes the tests (as Nick says), but my experience is that it degrades faster than the 'branded' ones. .

Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with you as such, hence suggesting a possible safety margin on oil changes, but I would be interested in how you judge that "it degrades faster than 'branded' ones.

Was the oil too thin or thick in your opinion? The problem/reservation I have with 'look and feel' comparisons is that they are very subjective and not scientific.

I mentioned my returning Esso EX2 back to Esso for lab analysis. This occurred during a service when I had dispensed 2l from one can and started another. The second can poured more freely, felt different and had a different can shake response. I then went and got my 1L top up bottle that I know was filled from the old can and compared it in a jug compared to the new oil. Even got as far as dropping and timing a small ball bearing through both oil samples. I was convinced the second batch was at odds with the first appearing thinner, more watery etc.

Lab tests proved that both oils (I actually sent two samples) were perfectly ok and totally to specification.

To this day I can't understand the results but the Chemist who organised the tests used to work with my dad at Esso Reseach so have no reason to believe their was smoke screen/coverup going on. Also I thrashed the hell out of my Uno engine on the track with the oil in question and had no issues at all.

I can tell you one thing with Diesel cars compared to petrol cars. The oil comes out BLACK, BLACK, BLACK. Drain and fill and the new oil gets black very very quickly. Even if you flush. If it were a petrol car you would be wanting to change the oil again and again and again. This loosely supports my comments about "subjective" evaluation of oil lubrification quality / degradation.

With the Croma and other Fiat Diesels with variable oil changes up to 18K miles I'm going to stick to 12K miles changes and thus have no problems with using either Halfords, Castrol etc. to the correct specification.

The last two cans of oil I bought from Halfords were I think Castrol Edge Turbo or Mobil Super S, the bonus was that each can came with compilmentary "Halfords Professional" screw driver kits containing 10+ drivers and retailing at £20 each. On this day I did not buy Halfords' own brand.

s130 said:

Not disagreeing with you as such, hence suggesting a possible safety margin on oil changes, but I would be interested in how you judge that "it degrades faster than 'branded' ones.

Click to expand...

On my last car (Sharan VR6) the hydraulic tappets would clatter from cold startup a lot sooner after an oil change than 'branded' oils - I also used Castrol magnatec and Mobil 1. Mobil 1 was the best oil I used for that car i.e. no 'lifter' noise between oil changes.

On my wife's last car I used Halfords own for a couple of services (5-6000 miles) on the grounds that it was a low-tech Hyundai. Started noticing the same tappet noise problem, switched to Mobil Super S and it stopped being a problem.

In mitigation, I used Halfords oil in my old 1.6 Punto with no ill effects, but that engine was used to power the Ark so I'm not surprised. You're all free to use what oil you like, my personal preferences are Selenia followed by Mobil.

It's difficult to judge oil viscosity as it varies so much with temperature, on petrol engines I find colour to be a better indicator of contamination and hence use. As you've already mentioned, diesel engines aren't very helpful in that respect

I've been changing the oil and filter at 8K intervals, mainly because I'll be keeping the car for another 5 years / 100K miles and given the lack of engine bay space with the 5-cylinder engine in, I'd rather the engine stayed in

HTH.