Technical Stilo JTD cooling issues

[cris1117]

Real fun heating systems I’ve done a few myself, got the burns from the blowlamp to prove it.
Although I believe they use plastic pipes these days.
Not sure about the pipe theory on the stillo, would they reach the wrong way round?

 

[Deckchair5]

It's difficult to imagine someone getting them mixed up but it's happened on other cars. I'm sure they'll be idiot proof. As long as the thermostat output goes to the top of the radiator then we're singing

 

[fifeplumber57]

the thermostat can't be removed on the car as its a complete housing unit with the 6 hoses connecting to it, i've got it booked into the garage that changed the timing belt and pump on tues so we'll see what they say, regarding the back flushing from bottom hose on rad it can't be done if the top hose is still connected to the thermostat as there's a flap inside that prevents water circulating till the thermostat is upto temp then it opens, and if i try doing it whilst its hot, once the cold water touches it, it'll prob close the flap if that makes sense which will stop any water passing back through the engine, lol god heating systems are far less hassle even when they do go wrong lol

 

[fifeplumber57]

i've just been out in the car this morning there and i decided to try having the cap off the bottle to see if that makes any difference but it only stopped the pressurization in the system but the temp guage still started to go up after a mile, does this make any sense to anyone but to me it does lead me to being circulation problem as if i stand and repeatedly squeeze the outlet pipe from the radiator (creating a pump like effect) thats only time it seems to draw some heat into the pipe

 

[Deckchair5]

regarding the back flushing from bottom hose on rad it can't be done if the top hose is still connected to the thermostat as there's a flap inside that prevents water circulating till the thermostat is upto temp then it opens, and if i try doing it whilst its hot, once the cold water touches it, it'll prob close the flap if that makes sense which will stop any water passing back through the engine
No, I know what you're thinking but the water will bypass the thermostat and go through the heater circuit which is a parallel circuit and flush that too. You know the coolant is circulating through the engine so you don't need to flush that, it's the heater and radiator circuits that could do with a flush through

Leaving the coolant reservoir cap off will not make a difference to your tests as it's only to allow the coolant to become pressurised a little so it will have a slightly higher boil point

No heat will go through to the radiator circuit until the engine is up to temperature and the thermostat opens at around 88C to allow only excess heat to be dumped through the radiator

You may also have a heat exchanger in the circuit to consider

 

[fifeplumber57]

if the temp guage is sitting in the normal position about half way up the guage, is that not when its at the 88 degrees, just that the pipe coming from the thermostat when its upto temp gets real hot just about to the point where it can hardly be touched and i undrstand that if it hits a problem its going to find the easiest way around the circuit which is through the heater matrix side and also the egr cooler and oil cooler, all they pipes are still really hot, i only kept the cap off for to see if there was any air in the system that couldn't get out with the cap being on, it was showing norm temp after only 3 miles of driving this morning, why can't it be like a central heating system where if part of the system wasn't heating you shut down or block off other parts of the circuit to force the heat to the areas that aren't heating lol

 

[Deckchair5]

if the temp guage is sitting in the normal position about half way up the guage, is that not when its at the 88 degrees,
yes

just that the pipe coming from the thermostat when its up to temp gets real hot just about to the point where it can hardly be touched
that sounds right- 88C is uncomfortably hot

and i undrstand that if it hits a problem its going to find the easiest way around the circuit which is through the heater matrix side and also the egr cooler and oil cooler
No, it flows through the heater circuit straight away. Only when the temp is up to 88C does it then dump it through the radiator circuit

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system.htm/printable
Have a look here and click on "START" but this is an older system with a heater on/off valve and so you must imagine the valve J doesn't exist and water flows through the heater circuit at all tiimes. Heater valves were always troublesome just like your central heating pump isolation valves which never work when you want them to and only leak so are more of a problem than a help

 

[fifeplumber57]

is this why anti-depressants were created for ppl having car problems lol.

See for with me repeatedly squeezing the cold outlet pipe and it getting hot after a few squeezes (well when i say hot it gets to roughly slightly cooler than the inlet pipe, but the way the pipe is moulded it only heats so far n doesn't go as far as reaching the radiator outlet though, is that me just drawing hot water back through the engine?

 

[Shadeyman]

If you drive the car for 10 minutes:

The temp gauge hits the half way point and stays there?

Your heater is working?

The car doesn't over heat, temp gauge stays in the middle?

No steam coming from the radiator anymore?

If all these are true then your car may well have nothing wrong with it.
If your using the heater and drawing heat away from the engine into the cab. The engine may not be getting hot enough to need extra flow through the radiator to cool the engine. You may be drawing all the heat into the cab, therefore the radiator is not required to cool the engine.

Perhaps you should drive around for 30 minutes and get the engine as hot as you can. Pretend your a boy racer for half hour, that should do it. Then quickly check the radiator while the engine is still really hot.

 

[fifeplumber57]

yea thats right, sits half way, it doesn't make a difference whether i've got the heating on in the cab or got it turned to cold, the guage doesn't go above half way, n can't recall the last time i ever notice the fan kick in at all, i'll see what the garage says tomorrow when i drop the car off

 

[Shadeyman]

As the engine reaches normal runing temp(half way on the gauge) the water and air in the cooling system expand presurising the system, thats what the expansion tank is for, top left in the engine bay. Radiator pipes may well fell a little hard due to the pressure increase, its nothing to worry about.

Take the car for a 30 min drive, put your foot down a little make sure the engine is producing plenty of heat. If the temp gauge stays in the middle, no steam escaping your car is probabely ok and has nothing wrong with the cooling system.

 

[Deckchair5]

the inlet pipe to the radiator from the thermostat would be red hot but the outlet pipe is stone cold,


but what i did notice was that after a good run both pipes going to rad would be real hard as if too much pressure and also outlet pipe still cold,

It's those two phrases from your first post that, to me, show something isn't right with the radiator flow circuit. It'll be interesting to see what this is

 

[Davren]

bled the rad numerous times and just water came out no air,

Not sure whether this will make any difference, but did you bleed all the bleed points? There's four on the JTD engine.

 

[fifeplumber57]

where is the fourth bleed point, as i know about 3, the 1st on the radiator, 2nd on the bar just above the exhaust manifold, 3rd on heating matrix pipe

 

[Davren]

There's two pipes with bleed screws above the exhaust manifold.
.

 

[fifeplumber57]

mines only has the one and its on the pipe going to oil cooler

 

[Davren]

My JTD 115 has both.... parallel and close to each other at the front of the cylinder head. The steel one goes to the EGR valve heat exchanger, as in the diagram above, and the aluminium one goes to the lower forward facing pipe on the thermostat.

ePER lists them both for the JTD 80 and 115. I haven't looked to see if they're used on other versions.

 

[fifeplumber57]

its the 80 version i've got, the bit where the bleed screw is shown on the pic is just a blank area as if it was an option and would need a hole drilled in the area and threaded if i was to put a bleed screw but don't wanna go messing around as knowing my luck it'll just cause even more probs for me lol

 

[fifeplumber57]

As the engine reaches normal runing temp(half way on the gauge) the water and air in the cooling system expand presurising the system, thats what the expansion tank is for, top left in the engine bay. Radiator pipes may well fell a little hard due to the pressure increase, its nothing to worry about.

Take the car for a 30 min drive, put your foot down a little make sure the engine is producing plenty of heat. If the temp gauge stays in the middle, no steam escaping your car is probabely ok and has nothing wrong with the cooling system.

I tried running the car for 30mins with cabin heater off, guage stayed at half way, no power loss etc, couldn't see any steam but once i'd stopped the outlet pipe was still cold and there was a hot smell from top of the radiator if that makes sense

 

[Shadeyman]

Mines the 115 version, just picked the missus up from her moms house, 30 min round trip. Temp gauge sat in the middle, outlet pipe cool.

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your cooling system.