Technical 'Steering Failure'

[murfIOW]

Hi guys, I'm new here and I need some help.

I am wanting to buy the Panda 4x4 I passed my test in off my mum. It's not currently on the road because the MOT tester quoted her roughly £700 for just the parts. It was going to fail on a power steering fault, but the MOT is not online as it didn't officially fail, they did her a favour. I have just inspected the car and I don't see anything obviously broken. I've wiggled stuff relating to the steering and everything feels tight. No split boots, leaks etc. there is plenty of surface rust and grime but nothing that would be described as a power steering fault. The steering works fine, no crunching or whining. City Mode even works! The only problem I can find is the car beeps and reads 'steering failure' when I turn the wheel to full lock. This sounds like a sensor problem to me but since the only mechanical experience I have with any Fiat is changing this car's oil, I expect someone knows something I don't.

Thanks for your help, Murf.

 

[koalar]

Does it fail consistently when going lock to lock

If you raise the revs to around 2.5K does it still fail

Check the rear subframe for rot, fairly common on older 4x4, parts not easy to come by

 

[murfIOW]

It fails every time lock to lock yes. I'm going to put an OBD on it and see if I can clear anything next. I'll also try the 2500rpm thing.

How would a rusty rear subframe affect the power steering by the way?

Cheers. I've seen your very active in this forum!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

It fails every time lock to lock yes. I'm going to put an OBD on it and see if I can clear anything next. I'll also try the 2500rpm thing.

How would a rusty rear subframe affect the power steering by the way?

Cheers. I've seen your very active in this forum!

I'm really into my Pandas and have owned them continuously for many years. Our present one is a 2010 1.2 - so a 169 model - I've never owned one newer. So I'm not that familiar with the 319 model - it has many similarities though. I'm wondering if this might not be an earth problem, especially as the gearbox earth wire is a known problem. The electric power steering pulls a pretty high current, especially if the car is stationary when you turn the wheel, so a poor earth might produce the problem you're having. Try connecting a single jump lead between a solid metal part of the engine/gearbox and a good clean earthing point on the body - maybe even the battery earth? and try the lock to lock again. If it "behaves" take a look at that gearbox earth cable - It's under the battery tray so not easy to see from above.

 

[koalar]

Check the rear subframe for rot, fairly common on older 4x4, parts not easy to come by

It will not

There's no point in fixing the power steerng, if the sills are rotten, about two inches forward from the rear wheel arch, lower edge, or the rear subframes which are very difficult to obtain in the UK especially in good condition and postage from Italy is astronomical, normally means the answer 05 car has come to the end of its life, from an economic point of view


If the car stood awhile, have you tried a different battery

 

[murfIOW]

I'm really into my Pandas and have owned them continuously for many years. Our present one is a 2010 1.2 - so a 169 model - I've never owned one newer. So I'm not that familiar with the 319 model - it has many similarities though. I'm wondering if this might not be an earth problem, especially as the gearbox earth wire is a known problem. The electric power steering pulls a pretty high current, especially if the car is stationary when you turn the wheel, so a poor earth might produce the problem you're having. Try connecting a single jump lead between a solid metal part of the engine/gearbox and a good clean earthing point on the body - maybe even the battery earth? and try the lock to lock again. If it "behaves" take a look at that gearbox earth cable - It's under the battery tray so not easy to see from above.

Ok I'll check this next. Although it now throws up that warning without needing to turn the wheel lock to lock. I wonder if by turning the wheels a fair bit while stationary has broken that ground even worse?

 

[murfIOW]

It will not

There's no point in fixing the power steerng, if the sills are rotten, about two inches forward from the rear wheel arch, lower edge, or the rear subframes which are very difficult to obtain in the UK especially in good condition and postage from Italy is astronomical, normally means the answer 05 car has come to the end of its life, from an economic point of view


If the car stood awhile, have you tried a different battery

Well it's not pretty but it doesn't look knackered either. A bit crusty here and there and springs look quite sad, but the screwdriver couldn't stab through anything.

It's got one of those Lion batteries which I've read have mixed reviews. The multimeter reads 12v when it's off tho, so I suppose it's ok? But yes hopefully something simple like that.

 

[koalar]

Are you sure 12V

This weather thats fairly discarded

Should be 12.6V fully charged at 15C

Just switched off I would expect well over 12.6V

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Are you sure 12V

This weather thats fairly discarded

Should be 12.6V fully charged at 15C

Yuh I was wondering about that, but I've no experience of li-ion so wouldn't know what to expect.

 

[koalar]

Yuh I was wondering about that, but I've no experience of li-ion so wouldn't know what to expect.

I read it as lion battery unless it's a typo

Which are normally a cheap brand of lead acid battery

lithium-ion should be high 13 volts to a max of 14.2V not sure the alternator would charge them correctly long term, never tried, charging current is different to a lead acid

 

[murfIOW]

I read it as lion battery unless it's a typo

Which are normally a cheap brand of lead acid battery

Yes it's a cheap battery. I assumed 12v switched off was good. That's probably the problem

 

[koalar]

Yes it's a cheap battery. I assumed 12v switched off was good. That's probably the problem

Simplist and most reliable test is to swap for a known good battery

Might need to check the meter is reading correctly

Should be 14.2V across the battery, engine idling, no electrics on, blower, lights and so on all off

A lot is covered here

EPS electric power steering faults | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

First don't panic, the vast majority of power steering faults are normally simple and cheap fixes especially if it starts failing mainly in your winter months But unfortunately nobody can say change this or do that and it fix it. A lot of different faults will cause the same symptoms or the...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I read it as lion battery unless it's a typo

Which are normally a cheap brand of lead acid battery

lithium-ion should be high 13 volts to a max of 14.2V not sure the alternator would charge them correctly long term, never tried, charging current is different to a lead acid

Well, at least I'm running true to form. - in that I always seem to be looking for the most difficult scenario! A Lion branded lead acid battery, of course it is. Budget brand so worth being suspicious of it.

!2 volts at rest is a wee bit on the low side and it'll drop more with a heavy load on it so I wouldn't be surprised to find the battery is the problem. Needs to be put on charge and retried before condemning it. As you say, somewhere around 14 volts - 13.5 to 14.5 - with the engine running will reassure you the alternator is charging.