Technical Starting problem 1.2 60 bhp

[westernlancia]

Hi - I have a 1996 Lancia Y 840 1.2 60 bhp, which is mechanically identical to a Series 1 Fiat Punto 60.

And I have a problem in that it has recently been refusing to start. At first it was intermittent - it wouldn't start about one time in three. But over a period of a couple of weeks it has begun to refuse to start at all. I have changed the plugs, leads and both coil packs, and it does not appear to be a fuel problem (I can hear the pump going when I switch the ignition on, and I have also dripped some fuel directly into the intake).

From memory I think the most likely culprit might be the crankshaft position sensor, but before I go out and buy one I wanted to canvass opinion and see if there were any other possibilities.

Thanks in advance - Alan

 

[bugsymike]

Hi - I have a 1996 Lancia Y 840 1.2 60 bhp, which is mechanically identical to a Series 1 Fiat Punto 60.

And I have a problem in that it has recently been refusing to start. At first it was intermittent - it wouldn't start about one time in three. But over a period of a couple of weeks it has begun to refuse to start at all. I have changed the plugs, leads and both coil packs, and it does not appear to be a fuel problem (I can hear the pump going when I switch the ignition on, and I have also dripped some fuel directly into the intake).

From memory I think the most likely culprit might be the crankshaft position sensor, but before I go out and buy one I wanted to canvass opinion and see if there were any other possibilities.

Thanks in advance - Alan

Can you confirm no spark?
Usually if crank sensor rev counter doesn't move.
If putting fuel down intake doesn't get any response then I would take the spark plugs out and reconnect to the leads and coil packs, then have someone turn engine over to confirm if no sparks, the spark plugs will need to be resting on the metal of engine.
I assume as it has progressively got worse rather than suddenly then nothing like a broken cam belt

 

[westernlancia]

Can you confirm no spark?
Usually if crank sensor rev counter doesn't move.
If putting fuel down intake doesn't get any response then I would take the spark plugs out and reconnect to the leads and coil packs, then have someone turn engine over to confirm if no sparks, the spark plugs will need to be resting on the metal of engine.
I assume as it has progressively got worse rather than suddenly then nothing like a broken cam belt

Thanks for the quick reply! I hadn't thought of checking for a spark (duh!), but I will do later. Pretty sure it's not the cambelt because I did it about 6 months ago, plus there was quite a while when it would start sometimes and not others. I can't check the rev counter because it is a 'stripper' model and it hasn't got one!

 

[westernlancia]

Can you confirm no spark?
Usually if crank sensor rev counter doesn't move.
If putting fuel down intake doesn't get any response then I would take the spark plugs out and reconnect to the leads and coil packs, then have someone turn engine over to confirm if no sparks, the spark plugs will need to be resting on the metal of engine.
I assume as it has progressively got worse rather than suddenly then nothing like a broken cam belt

Well blow me down. Did what you suggested (disconnected a plug and got my wife to turn the key). Got a big electric shock, fat spark, and the engine started instantly, on the other three cylinders!! So I put the plug back in and tried it again, and it WILL NOT start! Curiouser and curiouser!

 

[bugsymike]

Well blow me down. Did what you suggested (disconnected a plug and got my wife to turn the key). Got a big electric shock, fat spark, and the engine started instantly, on the other three cylinders!! So I put the plug back in and tried it again, and it WILL NOT start! Curiouser and curiouser!

I have had a few HT shocks over the years, luckily no "pace maker yet". Back in the 1970s we had an 80 year old uncle of the boss, who could stop an engine by putting his hands across all four plug leads in the days when the caps were bare.
What did the plugs look like, were they wet with unburnt fuel?
Has the engine/plug leads/coils etc. got water over them, is it possible they are shorting out?
Sometimes if you have bonnet open in the dark you can see HT leads sparking as a clue.

 

[westernlancia]

I have had a few HT shocks over the years, luckily no "pace maker yet". Back in the 1970s we had an 80 year old uncle of the boss, who could stop an engine by putting his hands across all four plug leads in the days when the caps were bare.
What did the plugs look like, were they wet with unburnt fuel?
Has the engine/plug leads/coils etc. got water over them, is it possible they are shorting out?
Sometimes if you have bonnet open in the dark you can see HT leads sparking as a clue.

Sorry about the late reply - not been around today to tinker. But yes, there was some fuel on the plug that I took out, but not really wet - just about what you'd expect. No water anywhere - it is dry here and it was in the garage till yesterday anyway. I have had the Blackpool sea front at night thing with another car - if I can get it started I will do a nighttime check, but the coil packs, plugs and leads are all nearly new.

I tried to start it on 4 cylinders again today, but no dice. I think I will take out the plug I took out when it started on 3 yesterday, and see if it will start with that removed. This is really weird! This time I shall make sure I insulate myself a bit better!