Technical Start stop issue

[luigithefiat]

I have an issue with my start stop. When I am stopped in traffic (still in drive) and it is engaged if it’s more than a short moment the car bleeps and thinks I am in neutral, changing the gear back to neutral then back to drive doesn’t help - I need to turn the whole car off and back on again to get it to start driving again. Is this normal or is there an issue? For the first time this morning it said “stop stop can’t be connected” or something like that, turned the car on and off and it was fine. However, it did the same thing again today but with start stop being disengaged, I was waiting to turn right and it did it again! Any ideas at all? Or is it something I am doing. Thankyou! If it helps it’s a 2011 semi automatic model

 

[Baglady1990]

I’m not familiar with the semi automatic gearboxes but this sounds more like a gearbox issue .. the start stop feature won’t work if the gearbox is playing up

 

[steveras57]

I’m not familiar with the semi automatic gearboxes but this sounds more like a gearbox issue .. the start stop feature won’t work if the gearbox is playing up

The duologic gearbox is well known for causing many and varied problems with many different issues reported by a wide range of members, if you sit on the forum long enough you will get a list of faults as long as your arm and as many different opinions on how to solve them! only commonality is everything is both hard to diagnose and ultimately expensive! therefore my advice is to sell the dam thing now and get a manual gearbox car otherwise I MO A L your in for a world of pain frustration and expense!.

 

[jrkitching]

Is this normal or is there an issue?

Read this thread.

I'd agree this could be a good time to get rid of this car.

 

[Tropicalmike]

Many different issues with the engine and dualogic will bring up "stop-start not available" by default . It is blocked so it doesn't stop the engine that might be difficult to restart. From your description it does sound more like something with the dualogic rather than the stop start , I dont have any experience with dualogic only a gearbox manual and getting start stop working . You might benefit from have someone check for Fault codes from MultiECUscan. This is the link to read about how start stop works and includes the dualogic gear box

https://lab-aftersales.fiat.com/elearn/main_content.aspx?markID=1&markName=Fiat&modelID=312000000&modelName=150+-+500&valID=312000006&validityName=0.9+Twinair+&DocumentTypeActive=manuale&documentType=Manual&DocumentTypeId=8&languageId=2&languageNavId=2&regionId=2&VIN=ZFA3120000J259644&nodeName=PETROL+INJECTION+SYSTEM&nodeName=PETROL+ENGINES+ELECTRONIC+MANAGEMENT&nodeName=STARTING+AND+RECHARING&nodeID=312008844&nodeName=%20STOP

 

[Richie08]

Many different issues with the engine and dualogic will bring up "stop-start not available" by default . It is blocked so it doesn't stop the engine that might be difficult to restart. From your description it does sound more like something with the dualogic rather than the stop start , I dont have any experience with dualogic only a gearbox manual and getting start stop working . You might benefit from have someone check for Fault codes from MultiECUscan. This is the link to read about how start stop works and includes the dualogic gear box

https://lab-aftersales.fiat.com/elearn/main_content.aspx?markID=1&markName=Fiat&modelID=312000000&modelName=150+-+500&valID=312000006&validityName=0.9+Twinair+&DocumentTypeActive=manuale&documentType=Manual&DocumentTypeId=8&languageId=2&languageNavId=2&regionId=2&VIN=ZFA3120000J259644&nodeName=PETROL+INJECTION+SYSTEM&nodeName=PETROL+ENGINES+ELECTRONIC+MANAGEMENT&nodeName=STARTING+AND+RECHARING&nodeID=312008844&nodeName=%20STOP

Hi Mike, Are you able to help me get access to this link? It seems to want login details. Im having problem fixing a dualogic that turns off with start/stop but doesn't restart. MES tells me that there is a plausibility issue with the starter. I'd like to understand all the logic and conditions that could be triggering this and this link looks like it would do so.

Thanks
Richard

 

[Tropicalmike]

Hi Richard, welcome to the forum! as it says you are a new member.
Sadly , that link I posted as you have found now requires a log in. Seems Fiat have now blocked open access to the likes of us. I think I saved the file on my laptop as I printed it off but I am not at home right now. I will check tomorrow.


Mike.

 

[Tropicalmike]

Just noticed that the pdf file about start stop is attached to my first post in my thread

Start-Stop system operation | FIAT 500 (2007+)

Frankly, if my S/S ever fails to work, and a new battery doesn't solve it, I'll just turn it off permanently and forget it. 🙃 Unless like myself you find the orange light in the speedo F**k OFF annoying!!!!!🤬

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Richie08]

Hey Mike, thanks for your replies. That document was really helpful. It refers to two relays (R1 and R2) being used as part of the start stop logic and being diagnosed as part of the process. I reckon one of these could be faulty. But. I cannot locate them, do you know where these are or how they correspond to the engine relays? I've attached pics below....

 

[Richie08]

And expanding slightly on my issue, car has a new battery, cleaned the engine earth plus fitted a new one. Starts and drives no issue off the key.

When the S&S system kicks in, engine shuts off correctly, but then when brake pedal is lifted (it's a dualogic so hasn't got a clutch) the engine doesn't restart. It triggers an engine light and the car has to be put in neutral, turned off and restarted. Not great when at a roundabout or junction!

Had a look on MES and this is the fault diagnosis and freeze frame info, but it's not hugely insightful, especially when it's okay starting from the key.

Thanks
Richie

 

[Tropicalmike]

Hi Richard, What age is you car ? Fuse/relay box next to the battery is a bit different on the face-lift 500 but I think the relays are same numbers. The full circuit diagram was available on e-learn platform. I took a couple of screen shots and printed it.
On the circuit diagram for starting
R1 = T20 relay from ECU
R2 = T10 relay from BCM
These are in lower right part of fuse panel. It seems like T10 could be faulty from your description. I will try and find the screen shots for you too.

 

[Richie08]

Hi Richard, What age is you car ? Fuse/relay box next to the battery is a bit different on the face-lift 500 but I think the relays are same numbers. The full circuit diagram was available on e-learn platform. I took a couple of screen shots and printed it.
On the circuit diagram for starting
R1 = T20 relay from ECU
R2 = T10 relay from BCM
These are in lower right part of fuse panel. It seems like T10 could be faulty from your description. I will try and find the screen shots for you too.

Brilliant, thanks Mike. It's a 2011 car, so im guessing there may be some differences. What i might do is swap the relay with rear window relay and see if I can get SS to operate, or see if a fault occurs on rear window heater... It's a Sunday so cant source new relays until tomorrow, via amazon, really

 

[Tropicalmike]

Just be wary, my circuit diagram was for a manual twin air engine may be different for a dual logic one

 

[Tropicalmike]

Just be wary, my circuit diagram was for a manual twin air engine may be different for a dual logic one

see attached , not that clear when you zoom in , but should help, if you have a T10 fitted it sounds promising !
since I made that thread my daughter has bought a dualogic 500 so I will be interested to hear what you find. Clearly you will have some extra controls/relays for dualogic , but the stop-start principle of starting is hopefully the same .

 

[Richie08]

Brilliant, thanks Mike. I'll take a look just shortly.

I've posted some dualogic info on my newbie thread which you might like a read of. My advice is, have a few spare SEB223 potentiometers at hand as these are the parts most likely to fail and means you can quickly swap out to get it working again if they do, even at the roadside if you needed to

 

[Tropicalmike]

This is a link a another forum member gave me to a different fiat e-learn website (in Italy ?? ) . It is is not as good as the one I used before and annoyingly all the circuit diagrams don't display , well not for me . If you can see them let me know what you used read them

https://lab-aftersales.fiat.com/elearn_testreda/main.aspx?nodeID=312002941&languageID=2&markID=1&modelID=312000000&valID=312000000&prodID=312000000&modelName=Fiat%20-%20150%20-%20500&langDesc=English&sectionName=Descrizioni&validityName=1.2%208v

 

[Tropicalmike]

and https://lab-aftersales.fiat.com/ele...me=Impianto Elettrico&validityName=1.2 8vthis one

 

[Tropicalmike]

What is the thread called or give me a link please.

Brilliant, thanks Mike. I'll take a look just shortly.

I've posted some dualogic info on my newbie thread which you might like a read of. My advice is, have a few spare SEB223 potentiometers at hand as these are the parts most likely to fail and means you can quickly swap out to get it working again if they do, even at the roadside if you needed to

 

[Richie08]

Had a look there and my earlier relays are a bit different to yours. I swapped T19 with T20 but thefault remains. Not sure what else to check next as no other relay suggests it's related to the starter motor system.

 

[Richie08]

What is the thread called or give me a link please.

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