Spare wheel - Lack of!

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

First off, apologies if this is in the wrong place.

Having said this, I'm absolutely sick of manufacturers substituting a can of gunge for a spare wheel and pretending everything will be OK if you have a puncture. For a start only some punctures will respond to this but even if they do you'll be lucky to find a tyre store who will subsequently repair it (because all the gunge takes so long to clean up and it's a filthy job to do) so you'll be buying a new one even if the puncture was caused by a panel pin in the middle of the tread!

The two most recent car purchases in "the family fleet" were both supplied without a spare. My own SEAT ibiza 1.0 tsi and my Boy's 1.4 tdi Kia Rio. Even more annoying is that both have wheel wells big enough to take a full size wheel/tyre! I was lucky in that the local SEAT dealer had a surplus steel rim lying in their store from a customer order which was not followed up. They let me have it for a very good price and I bought one of my favorite Barums to go on it. I collect car "stuff" and was lucky enough to have a couple of those "lethal" one legged VAG jacks to choose from to go with it. The wheel brace from my old Cordoba was the same nut size - sorted.

The Rio is proving more problematic. The dealer want's a ridiculous price for a steel wheel, even on line they're turning up at what I paid to sort the whole thing out for the Ibiza for just a rim for the Rio! Luckily I have a Jack which will work safely with it and buying a 21mm socket for the boy's extending wheel wrench will sort that angle (been a while since I came across a car with nuts as big as these!) - So back to the steel rim and tyre 185/65/15 by the way. Anyone know of a good and cheap source of supply?

 

[chris3234]

First off, apologies if this is in the wrong place.

Having said this, I'm absolutely sick of manufacturers substituting a can of gunge for a spare wheel and pretending everything will be OK if you have a puncture. For a start only some punctures will respond to this but even if they do you'll be lucky to find a tyre store who will subsequently repair it (because all the gunge takes so long to clean up and it's a filthy job to do) so you'll be buying a new one even if the puncture was caused by a panel pin in the middle of the tread!

The two most recent car purchases in "the family fleet" were both supplied without a spare. My own SEAT ibiza 1.0 tsi and my Boy's 1.4 tdi Kia Rio. Even more annoying is that both have wheel wells big enough to take a full size wheel/tyre! I was lucky in that the local SEAT dealer had a surplus steel rim lying in their store from a customer order which was not followed up. They let me have it for a very good price and I bought one of my favorite Barums to go on it. I collect car "stuff" and was lucky enough to have a couple of those "lethal" one legged VAG jacks to choose from to go with it. The wheel brace from my old Cordoba was the same nut size - sorted.

The Rio is proving more problematic. The dealer want's a ridiculous price for a steel wheel, even on line they're turning up at what I paid to sort the whole thing out for the Ibiza for just a rim for the Rio! Luckily I have a Jack which will work safely with it and buying a 21mm socket for the boy's extending wheel wrench will sort that angle (been a while since I came across a car with nuts as big as these!) - So back to the steel rim and tyre 185/65/15 by the way. Anyone know of a good and cheap source of supply?

Probably worth lookibg out on eBay for anyone breaking a write off

 

[portland_bill]

I've used these guys for tyres in the past, always good.
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/wheels-for/kia/rio
When I got the Fabia recently, I got a wheel from them, quick delivery and looks identical to the OE ones.

 

[StevenRB45]

Might be worth looking to see if you can get a wheel off an earlier generation of Kia to use.

With the Mazda my car has a spare and a jack the next generation on doesn't unless you stump up 300 quid+. But the wheel from my Car is the same stud pattern and will fit over the brakes. You can pick them up at breakers for peanuts.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks guys - just spotted one on line, about 10 mins ago, at a local breaker. £50. Looks a bit scabby but quite good tread left on it. Still a bit pricey as two other yards I have rung said around £25 to £35 depending on tyre condition - but they didn't have one! I may go and have a look at it tomorrow if I'm not required for "other duties". T £50 that's half what the cheapest price I've seen so far for a new wheel and tyre.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Might be worth looking to see if you can get a wheel off an earlier generation of Kia to use.

With the Mazda my car has a spare and a jack the next generation on doesn't unless you stump up 300 quid+. But the wheel from my Car is the same stud pattern and will fit over the brakes. You can pick them up at breakers for peanuts.

Yes Steven, that's what I was hoping. I think, but I'm not absolutely certain, that the same 15" steel wheel has been in use since around 2009. That being the case you'd think the yards would be bursting at the seams with them. But no! one standard wheel at this local yard and a spacesaver (which I don't want) at S & I Thomson in Galashiels - 30 miles away!

 

[g8rpi]

I agree totally on no spares. The last 3 "punctures" that I've had that needed a roadside wheel change were all too big to be repaired by one of the sealant kits. The lack of spare wheels is mainly down to fuel economy and "green" taxes, saving he OEM money is a bonus to them.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[perelaar]

On a lot of cars you can still spec a spare wheel - if you are lucky, even a full size one.
Ordered spare wheel with my Panda Cross, and did exactly that as well when ordering our Cupra Ateca.
Unfortunately, in both cases only space saver available. For the Panda as wheel well is not large enough, for the Ateca probably for weight savings. Interesting fact: space saver wheel is not large enough to fit over the optional Brembo brakes, so when speccing spare wheel one cannot have the brake pack

 

[DaveMcT]

My tyre supplier really does not like the emergency foam products but has no problems with internal tyre sealants like Puncturesafe. He says it must be tubeless spec but it's not hazardous or messy for him when working on treated tyres and it often saves the cost of a new tyre or even a new wheel.

I've used this on the motorbike and at least once I had absolutely no drama when a large object punctured the rear tyre. Quite a contrast to what normally happens when a bike tyre goes down quickly.

One was an M6 bolt(!) which I had that professionally patched but the guy who did it said there was not really any need.

 

[stevebad]

I have gotten along without a spare since 1999....... I always carry a tire plug kit and small compressor with me. Have plugged many flats, never use "gunk", never had a problem.

Of course, if you have a blowout, all bets are off...... But think about it...... What is your past historical ratio of flats / blowouts?

 

[Eklipze3k]

I have gotten along without a spare since 1999....... I always carry a tire plug kit and small compressor with me. Have plugged many flats, never use "gunk", never had a problem.

Of course, if you have a blowout, all bets are off...... But think about it...... What is your past historical ratio of flats / blowouts?

I'd rather have a spare wheel and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

[portland_bill]

I have gotten along without a spare since 1999....... I always carry a tire plug kit and small compressor with me. Have plugged many flats, never use "gunk", never had a problem.

Of course, if you have a blowout, all bets are off...... But think about it...... What is your past historical ratio of flats / blowouts?

In the UK, a plug inserted from outside has been outlawed for many years. Has to be a 'mushroom' patch inside, with the stem pulled through the hole to seal it.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Might be worth looking to see if you can get a wheel off an earlier generation of Kia to use.

As suggested here I also thought one from an earlier generation would be the answer. As you will have read in this thread they seem to be thin on the ground but I thought I'd found one for £50. Quite expensive but beggars can't be choosers!

Well, as several other yards all said they would normally take around the £30 mark, I put off buying this one. In the meantime I started looking to see what a brand new wheel might cost (and then I'd source my own tyre) and I found that although My boy's trim level 1 Rio and the earlier model both run a 185/65-15 tyre, the wheel on the earlier car (I think up to early '17 - MK3 model) runs a slightly narrower 5.5J rim but still 15" diameter. The MK4 runs a 6J on a 15" rim and the offset is slightly different too. - I think the older wheel would probably fit - 4 stud on the same PCD - but you might end up with the steering pulling to one side, especially if fitted to a front wheel due to the difference in offset.

So far I can only find new stock of the size we need so this is looking like it may be expensive!

 

[StevenRB45]

I think it this point I'd have the space saver.

Yes it's not ideal, but 100,000,000 times better than a can of squirty foam.

The slightly narrower steel wheel would probably be better again obviously, even if it's not perfect.

I suppose it depends if you plan to keep a new tyre in the boot and swap it on at tyre change. Otherwise seems an awful lot of time and effort for something which in my case has sat unused in the boot for 5 years. I have actually had punctures but none that couldn't be topped up until a repair or replacement was forthcoming.

 

[portland_bill]

As said, any wheel is better than a can of goo.
Any wheel that physically fits and does not foul anything could be used, but if not exactly the same as the others falls into the rules of a space-saver. Max speed 50mph/80kph.

Ford supply the standard steel wheel from a base model, so anything above base spec has a 'full size' wheel, but is restricted to the low speed.

Downside of that is faster roads. Last year I had to drive about 15 miles on a dual-carriageway at 50mph. Traffic from behind does not react to the lower speed. Our brains act on what we expect, not on what we see, so a car ahead is filtered by our subconcious as unimportant, until we get quite close and then 'suddenly' realise the speed difference is greater than expected. Think of those times on a motorway when you arrive behind someone going significantly slower than expected. Can be a fraught moment.
At 50mph, even the trucks will catch you up. Having one of them taken by surprise behind and making a quick lane change and overtake is a little worrying.

For the Panda, it has a space-saver, now 13 years old, never touched the road. I imagine that'll be a bit rubbish for grip, but I can live with that should I need it. I think a new tyre is more expensive than a new wheel and normal size tyre. (155/80 13 are cheap)
The Fabia, a working vehicle, and occasionally prone to learners striking kerbs, I've got a full size spare, identical to the rest. Used it once already in just 5 weeks, but that was due to air escaping past the beading at a balance weight.

Choice must depend on types of roads used mostly, against cost, needs and inconvenience. There's probably no right answer for everyone.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As said, any wheel is better than a can of goo.
Any wheel that physically fits and does not foul anything could be used, but if not exactly the same as the others falls into the rules of a space-saver. Max speed 50mph/80kph.

Choice must depend on types of roads used mostly, against cost, needs and inconvenience. There's probably no right answer for everyone.

As I've mentioned earlier, this car is my older son's. He has very little interest in cars beyond doing his regular checks. He's taking his family down to the lake district in a wee while for a week with my other children and their offspring. Should be a riot, so glad we're not going!

However, as quite a bit of motorway and main road driving are involved (they also tend to holiday in the UK), a full size compatible spare just makes sense. Especially as the car is the base version so on steels as standard. So, being retired, it's a wee job for me to try and source one.

I had a thought last night. The sales chap who we bought it from was unusually nice so I called him this morning and I'm waiting a call back from him as I'm writing this. Maybe he can help.

 

[DaveMcT]

Most "blow-outs" are down to under inflation overheating the tyre. I would still go for a pack of Puncturesafe Tubeless. At speed a moderate puncture will deflate the tyre until it shreds itself but you'll not notice until it's too late. If you stop on a hard surface, the wheel can be changed but if you end up on the grass verge, you'll need the "AA" as the jack will just dig in. It also provides some internal lubrication so you have more chance of recognising the problem and stopping before the tyre disintegrates.

Saying that, my last "puncture" was self inflicted. On a narrow road, I aimed for a driveway let-down to make space for oncoming cars, but hit the kerb and knocked the tyre off the rim. The side wall was ripped so the spare came in handy.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well there you go folks, after a lot of consideration we decided to blow the budget and buy a new wheel from Kia! So now he has a spare which is absolutely identical to the other wheels on the car. With suitable new tyre supplied by our local independent tyre people - Fair Deal Tyres - the whole thing, wheel and tyre, balance and new valve included, came to just the "wrong" side of £100.

We decided to go this route for quite a number of reasons but the main ones were:
#This is a "Kia Assured" nearly new vehicle so has the full 7 year warranty reinstated and my boy intends to keep it 'till something becomes economically not worth repairing, hopefully long past the 7 years.
#The car spends most of it's life on the motorway going Edinburgh - Livingston and back. A flat without a spare? - no thanks.
#The family do holidays in Britain. Edinburgh - Devon and other destinations in the south and sometimes do overnighters to avoid the worst of the M6 traffic. Again- a flat without a spare? - again no thanks.
#Proper (MK4) wheel 6J by 15 not available at any used source I could find - a number of 5.5J's from the MK3 though, but because not identical might be handling problems and , I guess legally you probably should stick to the 50mph if you used it? Not so good on the M6/M5 at 4.00am
#Supplying dealer not very interested in helping but the other dealer up here (Leven car company) who I only contacted yesterday were a different proposition all together. Very helpful, pleasant to speak with and gave me a discount! (not a very big one but a lot better than nothing) This is not a company I know much about but there were some very interesting cars to look at and the "about" section on their website is interesting to read. They seemed very willing to help. Wheel not in stock at their branch so ordered yesterday about midday - ready for collection after 08.00 this morning. Pretty good?

Above all though, it's giving Mrs Jock and myself less reason to worry when our daughter in law is on her daily dash along the M8 and about them all, especially our smashing little grandson, when they are off on one of these long journeys. The wee bit extra money spent is well worth it to us!

 

[DaveMcT]

Using the car like that some Puncturesafe would be a good idea. It will seal "normal" punctures and will reduce the air loss rate on a more severely damaged tyre giving a better chance of getting out of the traffic.

You do need to regularly check the tyres as nails, screws, etc wont cause a slow deflation. Of course everyone fully checks their tyres before every drive. Oh Yes!

But if the check does get forgotten you wont end up on the M6 with a tyre like this. BTW, it's not a blow-out - this tyre was driven while flat and torn the side walls.

 

[portland_bill]

No matter how often you check tyres for nails, etc., you won't spot them if the car is sitting on it. Jacking it up to turn the wheels is not going to happen weekly is it. I'd rather see the soft tyre than have some goo mask it from me. But that's just my choice.

Love the shredded tyre, seen a few of those in my days fitting tyres and repairing punctures. Have had to advise more than once that it is not repairable. Yes, really! More usual is distorted sidewalls, which can be more difficult to convince an owner that it is scrap.