Technical Sliding door

[ARiggs1]

Hi guys, I’ve been searching the forum and you tube for a little while now and I can’t seem to get an answer so praying someone will be able to help me!

My sliding door won’t close flush at the top right corner, it seems like it’s fitted flush everywhere else but not there.

It’s a considerable gap and can fit my finger tips in it and means I have a lot of water ingress too!

I can see there is a pin like object on the van body where a catch seems to connect on to and it doesn’t seem to pull it close enough for the catch the fully clasp closed. Even shoving it hard doesn’t get it to click it into the catch?

I have also thought when and if the catch is suppose to clamp onto that pin, is the external handle suppose to unhook it? Because it only unhooks it from the inside if that’s the case?

Please help!!

 

[Jockstrap]

Would help a bit if you post a photo from the rear showing the whole door closed.

Where one corner only is out of line, I'd suspect door warp, or frame misalignment. Side panel has (apologies) a poor paint finish?

Slide open the door and check the gap to panel.

Others better place to help with door catches.

 

[bugsymike]

If you open the sliding door a little, reach up and close the top catch by hand and see if it goes through two phases and then locks in position, which is good.
Then operate the release door handle and it should move all the way back in to the open position, assuming it does, next bring the door almost to the closed position and see if the top round bolt that it engages with is in line as the door starts to close against that it should pull the lock mechanism into the closed position. The pin should engage inbetween the plastic U piece of the catch.
What often happens it the bolt becomes out of align. assuming the rest of the door hasn't dropped and all the other panels are engaging closely, then what is most likely is that top bolt/pin has moved slightly.
If you slacken it you will see it is has a large flat washer behind it and when slackened it can be adjusted to align the lock to the pin/bolt.
I have done many door issues on big vans from Ducato Maxie's to Iveco Daily's, plus smaller vans although mostly it is the big heavier doors that get the most wear.
By the way if the lock/catch is not functioning correctly the two 10 mm bolts can be undone and that catch replaced, but be careful not to drop the rod that operates it into the door panel, usually you can remove the bolts, slide the catch away , hold the rod and unhook it from the catch to fit the new one.
The catch and pin should look something like this, remember they are handed.
Incidentally it is worth checking these last two photos for the front alignment points, if they are showing signs of damage it is often that the door has dropped and needs correcting.
By the way I always keep all the moving parts well lubed and if possible shut the door using two hands, the front to close and the rear hand to guide it into the catches, what usually happens is people grab the door handle and slam it one handed, causing extra strain.

 

[ARiggs1]

Ok I shall take another photo to show more.

Was hoping it is misalignment not a
The gentleman we bought the van off painted it really poorly with marine paint and we are trying to get everything else sorted before painting it.

Yes so the U catch that you speak of seems to function as i Believe it should, it locks into a horizontal placement and doesn’t unlock until the inside handle is pulled (is that correct?)

With the pin that is on the body work which is suppose to go into the U catch, how would I loosen that? Do I just turn it?

I do close the door with both hands but I do feel the need to slam it hard to close, would I just be better just replacing all the parts? I’m not sure how old the parts are and then I know it’s all been sorted then?

Sorry for all the questions and I really appreciate your help!

 

[lycopersicum]

I have a similar issue with that corner, I've compromised by letting the bottom stick out a bit more. I keep meaning to measure where it's actually out of true...

 

[bugsymike]

Ok I shall take another photo to show more.

Was hoping it is misalignment not a
The gentleman we bought the van off painted it really poorly with marine paint and we are trying to get everything else sorted before painting it.

Yes so the U catch that you speak of seems to function as i Believe it should, it locks into a horizontal placement and doesn’t unlock until the inside handle is pulled (is that correct?)

With the pin that is on the body work which is suppose to go into the U catch, how would I loosen that? Do I just turn it?

I do close the door with both hands but I do feel the need to slam it hard to close, would I just be better just replacing all the parts? I’m not sure how old the parts are and then I know it’s all been sorted then?

Sorry for all the questions and I really appreciate your help!

Yes the catch should stay in the locked position until the inside or outside door release handles are operated.
The pin is slackened with a spanner to move it within it's adjustment circle, you will see when you start to slacken it.
But first I would stand inside and have someone slowly bring the door in towards it's locking position to see if it is trying to engage that pin, that way you will know which way to move it to locate the pin into the U shape of the catch.
I wouldn't just replace parts without first checking them.
What often happens is the pin is slightly out of alignment and rides over the catch rather than sitting in the plastic U part.
I assume also that there is nothing jamming the runners on the sliding door, I have seen builders vans with screws and other rubbish jammed in the runners.

 

[ARiggs1]

Is this informative? I haven’t checked the runners yet either tbh

 

[Jockstrap]

Don't worry about the questions .

Put a mark on the bodywork pin to bodywork N,S,E&W then turn the pin. Could be the pin stops the door being pulled?

Try some emulsion paint or tippex on the bodywork pin. Let dry and gently close the door. See what marks.

 

[PL 8]

Are these pictures of any help to you?

 

[bugsymike]

Looking at the OPs last video at #7, it appears that the locating pin is sitting in the lock catch, so it is possible that the pin just needs slackening off and moving a little in wards.
The top part of the second picture marked 1b is the pin that needs moving inwards, useful diagram at #9 from @PL 8 .
I suggest he marks the current position and adjust a bit at a time to ensure the pin stays in the correct location so it doesn't run over or behind the lock which is very common.
Hopefully no parts required.
I see what was meant about the paint job.

 

[lycopersicum]

Assuming the door isn't hitting against anything that stops it going all the way.

If all the other corners are flush, and only that one is not, then the door is warped.

To move that corner in, you have three options:
- move the two rear corners in
- move the two bottom corners out
- move the bottom rear out and the top front in

This is because the door pivots along two diagonal axes, one from the main lock / rail pivot to each of the front corners.

If the rear corners do not fall on the same vertical line as the front corners, there is no way to adjust that without bending metal.

Similarly, at the rear edge, if the middle is flush but both top and bottom stick out there is no adjustment for that.

 

[bugsymike]

Assuming the door isn't hitting against anything that stops it going all the way.

If all the other corners are flush, and only that one is not, then the door is warped.

To move that corner in, you have three options:
- move the two rear corners in
- move the two bottom corners out
- move the bottom rear out and the top front in

This is because the door pivots along two diagonal axes, one from the main lock / rail pivot to each of the front corners.

If the rear corners do not fall on the same vertical line as the front corners, there is no way to adjust that without bending metal.

Similarly, at the rear edge, if the middle is flush but both top and bottom stick out there is no adjustment for that.

Worth checking and can soon be proved by simply taking the pin out at top and seeing if door closes flush or not when pushed in.
My money is on that pin needing adjusting.

 

[lycopersicum]

Definitely test with the pin loosened. I've been scared to take it fully out lest the nut falls off into unreachable depths, do you know if it is a captive nut @bugsymike ?

What I think happens is the pin gets out of alignment due to wear and the door gradually sagging on the rail pivot, and then an impatient person starts slamming the door harder and eventually bends it against the pin.

 

[bugsymike]

Definitely test with the pin loosened. I've been scared to take it fully out lest the nut falls off into unreachable depths, do you know if it is a captive nut @bugsymike ?

What I think happens is the pin gets out of alignment due to wear and the door gradually sagging on the rail pivot, and then an impatient person starts slamming the door harder and eventually bends it against the pin.

In fairness I retired some years ago, but from memory I think it was a trapped nut.
If careful you can usually tell by slackening and pushing against the pin to see, but I have changed those pins on Iveco Dailys and Ducatos etc. without losing the nut.
Most of the vans I worked on were driven by multiple trades people so probably got a lot of abuse.
I recall a fairly new one at the time a 1997 Ducato Maxi van that just prior to each Mot they had to have the windscreen replaced due to body flex cracking it, once Moted it soon cracked again. I believe that company bought the van new! They later bought two Citroen Relays, same model different badge.

 

[Jockstrap]

DO NOT LOSE THE NUT FROM THE STRIKER!

Clean the paint from the washer to the bodywork. Loosen a tad and using a wooden wedge gently try to knock the pin inwards.

I'm not sure how much the pin will move, if at all. Can't be captive nut if any movement.

Does the catcher move?

 

[Jockstrap]

Sitting in sunshine so ...

2022 tread started by vtek, featuring bugsymike:

"Sliding door don't close on top back catch"

Worth a look .

 

[bugsymike]

Sitting in sunshine so ...

2022 tread started by vtek, featuring bugsymike:

"Sliding door don't close on top back catch"

Worth a look .

I am so boringly repetitive eh!
By the way it was pointed out to me that if you have rubber or plastic rollers then do not use engine oil to lubricate.
In my defense most of my work was on the older Iveco daily's and they had steel bearings rather than soft rubber/plastic ones used on the Ducato.

 

[ARiggs1]

thanks for your replies folks! hoping to get somewhere with this soon, whats my options if worse case scenario the door is warped? am I able to bend that top corner in somewhat to make it better?

also @Jockstrap what nut are you talking about not losing?

one more thing I just thought while reading another post, could any of this be down to the rear latch being replaced? I had to replace the mech on the rear of the sliding door as previous owner had a deadbolt system and I wanted it all back on central locking so had to remove the previous mech and deadbolt system to do that which is working successfully but wandering is something to do with the mechanism not helping the issue and I was also very hopeful that I got the metal cables put back in the correct positioning on the handles?

thanks again

 

[bugsymike]

thanks for your replies folks! hoping to get somewhere with this soon, whats my options if worse case scenario the door is warped? am I able to bend that top corner in somewhat to make it better?

also @Jockstrap what nut are you talking about not losing?

one more thing I just thought while reading another post, could any of this be down to the rear latch being replaced? I had to replace the mech on the rear of the sliding door as previous owner had a deadbolt system and I wanted it all back on central locking so had to remove the previous mech and deadbolt system to do that which is working successfully but wandering is something to do with the mechanism not helping the issue and I was also very hopeful that I got the metal cables put back in the correct positioning on the handles?

thanks again

I don't think the door is warped, just try what I said re the top pin. re the locking part of the catch, you said it worked when you closed it and released when you worked the handle, so that part should be fine , incidentally that part that is held on with two 10mm bolts is not adjustable , it just bolts to the door in fixed position, it is only the pin that can move, so try moving it in a little and see if that makes it closer, you don't have to unscrew it completely as it is not broken, just needs adjusting.
You could even try slackening it a little and close the door onto the catch, then push the door inwards to see if the gap closes, then if you are very careful ., release the catch and keep it released as you open the door and tighten the pin, that way you may find it is almost in the correct position if lucky.

 

[Jockstrap]

@Jockstrap what nut are you talking about not losing?

Your middle photo and bugsymike's 2/4. The pin in the bodywork the catch should strike to lock.

I'm not convinced how the pin is secured. The diagrams above suggest the pin will move when slackened. Just be cautious. Remember to mark the current position.

Suppose a bit of paint damage will be ok.

Edit. If the nut retaining the pin is not captive, over enthusiasm and it might drop off.