Technical Siezed O2 Sensor

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Technical Siezed O2 Sensor

I used a piece of 18 x 28 wood batten cut to the width of the battery top. The strap was a bit too tight so cut bits off the end until the strep pulled up without being stained. If you dont like the looks of bare wood just waft it over with Halfords black rattle can.
 
The best way I have found to remove a stuck / rusted bolt of fitting :-
  1. Soak it with wd40, and leave it for an hour or two.
  2. Spray more and leave it to soak even further
  3. Heat the outside, not the bolt as you want the hole to increase in size... the best way to do this is to pour water / spray WD40 on the bolt to cool it faster.
  4. Using a correct sized socket, tighten it a little before releasing it. You may need to wiggle it back and forth.
  5. If it still isn't moving, go back to 1 and repeat.
  6. As soon as it is out, wipe the WD40 off the hole and if you want to reuse the bolt, drop it into a container of oil for the oil to replace the penetrating fluid. Otherwise, if reused, it will rust solid and never come out.
WD40 or similar is a penetrating fluid not an oil. It removes all oil / protections from steel so if it is used on a hinge as an oil, it will release the hinge but the hinge will rust solidily again in a day or so - same happens on a nut / bolt.
 
WD40 or similar is a penetrating fluid not an oil. It removes all oil / protections from steel
Both WD40 and oil are primarly hydrocarbons; designed for different purposes. WD40 will mix with any oil on steel, but will leave a residue when wiped off, so it's not suitable for use as a degreaser - you need a bipolar solvent like hyperclean for that.

WD40 comprises a volatile fraction to maximise penetration, and a heavier fraction which remains as a residue. Whilst WD40 isn't particularly durable as a preserving oil, it does have some preserving qualitites (it's good for protecting garden tools stored in a shed against corrosion). It's useful, and I've always got a can lying around, but I'd never rely on it for corrosion protection in most automotive applications; there are far better alternatives. It's also quite aggressive to many types of rubber, and some plastics, so be careful if it's likely to get onto such parts. It'll destroy latex gloves pretty much instantly, so you need to think about hand protection if you value your skin.

  1. Soak it with wd40, and leave it for an hour or two.
  2. Spray more and leave it to soak even further
  3. Heat the outside
Heating something you've just sprayed with WD40 is basically stupid, and also dangerous; WD40 is extremely flammable and if you use an open flame, you'll likely start a fire. There's a clear, explicit warning on every can.
 
I just want to say thank you to kmor panda for posting above. I wouldn't want him/her to feel discouraged from joining in any of our conversations and everyone's experiences have value.

I have to agree with jrk on the WD40 issue though. Like him, I always have a can of the stuff (actually 3 at this time) to hand and it certainly has it's uses. However when it comes to loosening corroded threads/components it's not what I would find myself reaching for. As has been mentioned on this forum, I believe WD40 stands for Water Dispersant formula 40 and was their 40th attempt at formulation of a WATER DISPERSANT. Although it has a multitude of uses it's seems best at what it was originally designed for - dispersing water? If you're specifically trying to loosen rusted up nuts,bolts and other components then a product aimed specifically at that task will perform better. My two favourites are Plus Gas Formula A or P B Blaster but other folk will have their favourites I'm sure.

Here's a link to The WD40 website which makes very interesting reading if you've a few minutes to spare: https://www.wd40.com/history/

One for Plus Gas: https://www.plusgas.co.uk/en-gb

And one for P B Blaster: https://blasterproducts.com/about_blaster_corporation/#:~:text=Born and bred in Cleveland,a phosphate mine in Florida.

Not so easy to find over this side of "the pond" is Kroil: https://www.kroil.com/ I've never used it myself but an American friend swears by it.
 
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Both WD40 and oil are primarly hydrocarbons; designed for different purposes. WD40 will mix with any oil on steel, but will leave a residue when wiped off, so it's not suitable for use as a degreaser - you need a bipolar solvent like hyperclean for that.

WD40 comprises a volatile fraction to maximise penetration, and a heavier fraction which remains as a residue. Whilst WD40 isn't particularly durable as a preserving oil, it does have some preserving qualitites (it's good for protecting garden tools stored in a shed against corrosion). It's useful, and I've always got a can lying around, but I'd never rely on it for corrosion protection in most automotive applications; there are far better alternatives. It's also quite aggressive to many types of rubber, and some plastics, so be careful if it's likely to get onto such parts. It'll destroy latex gloves pretty much instantly, so you need to think about hand protection if you value your skin.


Heating something you've just sprayed with WD40 is basically stupid, and also dangerous; WD40 is extremely flammable and if you use an open flame, you'll likely start a fire. There's a clear, explicit warning on every can.
Definitely not on something that isn't out in the clear away from anything flammable

Your better heating the object up first and spraying fluid on the bolt and cool that down quicker then the fastener


But even that needs to be away from anything that can be damaged on only spray in small Bursts
 
I just remembered I've used this stuff: https://www.autoshop.co.uk/products/57216/freeze--release-penetrating-oil---400ml.htm with moderate success. I heat the component up a bit first - doesn't need to be red hot, just hot enough you can't comfortably touch it - and then spray it. The cooling effect cracks the rust. Works quite well but you do need to spray quite a lot of the product to get a decent cooling effect, not like just giving something a wee squirt of Plus Gas, so makes it quite expensive to use. I was quite impressed with the outcome I achieved though.
 
Both WD40 and oil are primarly hydrocarbons; designed for different purposes. WD40 will mix with any oil on steel, but will leave a residue when wiped off, so it's not suitable for use as a degreaser - you need a bipolar solvent like hyperclean for that.

WD40 comprises a volatile fraction to maximise penetration, and a heavier fraction which remains as a residue. Whilst WD40 isn't particularly durable as a preserving oil, it does have some preserving qualitites (it's good for protecting garden tools stored in a shed against corrosion). It's useful, and I've always got a can lying around, but I'd never rely on it for corrosion protection in most automotive applications; there are far better alternatives. It's also quite aggressive to many types of rubber, and some plastics, so be careful if it's likely to get onto such parts. It'll destroy latex gloves pretty much instantly, so you need to think about hand protection if you value your skin.


Heating something you've just sprayed with WD40 is basically stupid, and also dangerous; WD40 is extremely flammable and if you use an open flame, you'll likely start a fire. There's a clear, explicit warning on every can.
Correct

And explosive in a combined space

No amount of penetrating oil will ever have an effect on two parts that have properly seized and grown together. There's no space for capillary action to pull any in, 1 minuites, 1 day, 1 week makes no difference, this is just what the Internet regularly states,

Do I use penetrating oil, absolutely, on exposed thread, or on treads that already moving,

Would I use penetrating oil on a O2 sensor I was reusing, no, for obvious reasons


I wasn't going to post on this thread as to me, The last part about Wd40 causing rust just appears to be delebratly designed to cause a reaction on a thread that's been dead for 6 months

Screenshot_20230829_105629.jpg


Just the same a several other posts
Connecting a towbar to a parking sensor

Multi-grade oil is thicker when cold

1.2 block is aluminum

You will die if you accidently touch the wiring in the back of the car

And so on
 
Just the same a several other posts
Connecting a towbar to a parking sensor

Multi-grade oil is thicker when cold

1.2 block is aluminum

You will die if you accidently touch the wiring in the back of the car

And so on
Let's not add any more fuel to this particular fire; there's enough WD40 in there already!
 
If you're specifically trying to loosen rusted up nuts,bolts and other components then a product aimed specifically at that task will perform better.
The subject of corroded fastenings really does deserve a thread of its own. It would properly belong in the technical section, but almost noone ever goes there.
 
The subject of corroded fastenings really does deserve a thread of its own. It would properly belong in the technical section, but almost noone ever goes there.
Ok I will start one as I have an example at the moment but I feel it end in an argument as everyone has there own opinions
 
Only yesterday I came across a sieezed bleed nipple on my NSF calliper. A snugly fitted 8 mm spanner started to round it off with just light tapping by hand. So out came the blow torch,I wasn't bothered about over heating the brake fluid as I was doing a change/flush, although I didn't go mad with the heat. I used my small vice grips and got a slight bit of movement and uesing the afore mentioned penetrating oil and working the nipple back and forth it came out. Fortunately I had a second hand one ( I tend to keep things like that)which saved the day.
 
Both WD40 and oil are primarly hydrocarbons; designed for different purposes. WD40 will mix with any oil on steel, but will leave a residue when wiped off, so it's not suitable for use as a degreaser - you need a bipolar solvent like hyperclean for that.

WD40 comprises a volatile fraction to maximise penetration, and a heavier fraction which remains as a residue. Whilst WD40 isn't particularly durable as a preserving oil, it does have some preserving qualitites (it's good for protecting garden tools stored in a shed against corrosion). It's useful, and I've always got a can lying around, but I'd never rely on it for corrosion protection in most automotive applications; there are far better alternatives. It's also quite aggressive to many types of rubber, and some plastics, so be careful if it's likely to get onto such parts. It'll destroy latex gloves pretty much instantly, so you need to think about hand protection if you value your skin.


Heating something you've just sprayed with WD40 is basically stupid, and also dangerous; WD40 is extremely flammable and if you use an open flame, you'll likely start a fire. There's a clear, explicit warning on every can.
A blowtorch etc is clearly a flame... and if you are using it on anything flamable, it will go on fire.
Metal melts with too much heat. It doesn't burn.

It is plainly obvious that you have book learning and zero pratical experience. Both your attitude here and your coments prove it. Other peoples comments show that they have the intelligence to do this correctly, where your coments prove the opposite.

You seem to be out here to attack people that disagree with you, so the real question is - what benefit are you to this forum? I can see your self-gain, but that is useless to members here. This is supposed to be open discussion in relation to assisting others in solving electrical and mechanical issues with their Fiat cars, and this subforum is related to the 169 Panda. None of us are experts here, but knowledge is gained from sharing experiences, not from bullying / attacking different views / behaviour.
 
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I just want to say thank you to kmor panda for posting above. I wouldn't want him/her to feel discouraged from joining in any of our conversations and everyone's experiences have value.

I have to agree with jrk on the WD40 issue though. Like him, I always have a can of the stuff (actually 3 at this time) to hand and it certainly has it's uses. However when it comes to loosening corroded threads/components it's not what I would find myself reaching for. As has been mentioned on this forum, I believe WD40 stands for Water Dispersant formula 40 and was their 40th attempt at formulation of a WATER DISPERSANT. Although it has a multitude of uses it's seems best at what it was originally designed for - dispersing water? If you're specifically trying to loosen rusted up nuts,bolts and other components then a product aimed specifically at that task will perform better. My two favourites are Plus Gas Formula A or P B Blaster but other folk will have their favourites I'm sure.

Here's a link to The WD40 website which makes very interesting reading if you've a few minutes to spare: https://www.wd40.com/history/

One for Plus Gas: https://www.plusgas.co.uk/en-gb

And one for P B Blaster: https://blasterproducts.com/about_blaster_corporation/#:~:text=Born and bred in Cleveland,a phosphate mine in Florida.

Not so easy to find over this side of "the pond" is Kroil: https://www.kroil.com/ I've never used it myself but an American friend swears by it.
WD40. as you correctly state is named from Water Dispersant No. 40, but that is all the name means. The formula has changed since WD40, but the name stayed the same. It is a penatrating fluid that removes (disperses) oil and water from metal. It also disolves / liquifies rust which allows one to loosen a bolt / nut etc, but since it is a dispersant for not only water, but oil also, if oone does not soak the fittings in oil etc to recoat them, the fitting will re-rust even tighter than it was before.

Metal has pores which holds oil / water, and WD40 is good at getting into it to be able to release a tight / stuck nut / bolt / hindge. However, it is NOT, and I have to shout that one, NOT a product to prevent rust. It actually promotes rust as it removes the misicule oil layer that exists on metal - I know as I have sprayed it in items as a protector that eventually have ended up scrapped as they were a ball of rust. I kinda laugh at jrk's statement that he uses it on garden tools, as they would rust very shortly after spraying it. A lot of people follow WD40's advertisements blurb on the web that states that it is an oil / lubricant, but it is not. They also believe in the ads that show a squeaking hinge / nut etc where they spray WD40 and the squeak goes. What is not shown is the day/week afterwards where the hinge / bolt is no longer squeaking - it is frozen solid. So, under the terms of advertising, it does remove the squeak - but most people do not want the result.

Most bolts that need to be removed in the 169 are either steel bolted into aluminum (exhaust manifold into head) or steel into steel (exhaust sensors etc) where they are exposed to hightemp changes. As a result, normal heating usually doesn't 'crack' or remove them and care has to be employed to remove same. The third set of bolts in the 169 that lock are the rear seatbelt bolts where the bolt goes through the car frame and the outside of the bolt is exposed to the mud/muck within the wheel arch. That needs a wire brush (on the outside) plus WD40 to remove it, AND to be soaked in oil before it can be reinstated. Heat in that location is normally difficult.

Most mechanics, before they attempt to loosen bolts / fittings, soak them with WD40 so that they can remove same without braking the bolt. Youtube has thousands of videos showing this, so I am not the only one... and I have broken enough bolts in cars over the years to know, by feel, whether a bolt is going to open / shear. One of the most recent was a bolt in the rocker cover on the 169 where I had to dremel a slot in the remaining shaft to remove it, but again I'd expect a certain few trolls here to tell me that I did't do that. They already told me that the block that the bolt was in was not aluminum, and attempt to prove themselves correct by stating that I am talking about a 1.2 and not a 1.1 engine!

I, maybe foolishly, thought that this site didn't tollerate trolls / liars like that. One of them admitted that he lies on posts. Of what use is that to the members here? This liar is prolific, posting 4-6 items a day (on average) for the past eight years continosly. To be correct, he must either have been an ex-employee of Fiat, or one of their service agents. However, to have the time to post 4-6 day, 7 days a week continously for the last eight years, he really must be isolated / retired where in real life, people avoid him as experience has told them to do so. As a result, I do same. He just does not have the personality that I want to deal with, as all he does is drag people down to his level.
 
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Oh deary me. This thread is bringing out the worst in us isn't it? I would not like to see peoples posts being restricted in any way but I do wish we could all concentrate on the cars and technical aspects and leave the personal criticism for social media? - which, for that reason, I don't engage in - Despite many years in and around the motor trade I've learned many specific things about our wee Fiats and their problems that I previously didn't know and every time I crank my laptop into life I do so hoping another wee gem of info is going to pop up. Let's concentrate on the cars folks.

Oh, and as mentioned above, perhaps a thread dedicated just to how folks deal with seized fixings might be interesting?
 
Oh, and as mentioned above, perhaps a thread dedicated just to how folks deal with seized fixings might be interesting?
I was just thinking of posting the same suggestion... maybe like a knowledgebase (yuk!) covering some of the Panda fixings where someone has found a good way of dealing with a particular problem.

Much more interesting than debating the merits (or lack of merits) of different penetrating sprays (e.g. I still use PlusGas, only use "normal" WD40 when nothing else is available, but I do use WD40 electrical contact cleaner because it works pretty well, but others will have different views)

For instance, has anyone found a good foolproof nondestructive way of removing 17 year old bumper bolts which have totally rusted to their spire clips? Heat (including drilling/cutting) melts the plastic, penetrating oil doesn't help, and space/access is limited.
 
For instance, has anyone found a good foolproof nondestructive way of removing 17 year old bumper bolts which have totally rusted to their spire clips? Heat (including drilling/cutting) melts the plastic, penetrating oil doesn't help, and space/access is limited.
I drilled the bottom ones out on my 06
With a Split point drill bit
At a slow speed just took my time
Cheap China drills often have poor or no lip clearance causing them to rub more than cut.
Did mess up the first one, tried snapping it off but all it did was damage the bumper
Under the wheel arch lining ones came off fine
Not had my current bumper off (2011) Just looked now, they are coated (zinc maybe) and no corrosion upgrade maybe or possibly a previous repair
 
I drilled the bottom ones out on my 06
With a Split point drill bit
At a slow speed just took my time
Cheap China drills often have poor or no lip clearance causing them to rub more than cut.
Did mess up the first one, tried snapping it off but all it did was damage the bumper
Under the wheel arch lining ones came off fine
Not had my current bumper off (2011) Just looked now, they are coated (zinc maybe) and no corrosion upgrade maybe or possibly a previous repair
Yep, slow drilling is the least bad option I've found so far, but I'm sure there must be a better way.
Totally agree on cheap drill bits - I do keep a few about for things which will probably result in broken or blunt drill bits anyway (like cheap Chinese garden furniture were parts were pre-drilled with wrong size in almost the right place)
I've done dozens of Panda bumpers and still looking for a better way.
I have tried Dremel cut-off discs, bolt croppers, and various others, but nothing really works well.


Oops - just noticed i called them Spire nuts. Should be chimney nuts. Work of Satan!
 
When drilling by hand ( not in a drill press)

Split point bits are the way to go

I couldn't find a good explination but this video does touch on the less down pressure

 
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