Technical Should I try save one

[Backwards]

Hi there,

I am a little bit of a midship enthusiast weather it's an MR2,mg t/f or a X1/9 but I have very little experience working on cars. I have always wanted a midengine track toy and a cheap X1/9 has come up but it hasn't moved in years and it's rusted af. Floor pan rusted, gearbox is gone, fuel pump gone, sills are rusted, rear arches are rusty but not as bad as sills but the inside isn't too bad as it's been gutted for racing already with racing seats. Seller will probably take about £250 for the car.

Is it worth it to save the car and learn to weld/repair it or should I just spend more and get something else. Completely open but idk this platform and I have never dealt with rust before, is this a good way to learn?

 

[Backwards]

Hi there,

I am a little bit of a midship enthusiast weather it's an MR2,mg t/f or a X1/9 but I have very little experience working on cars. I have always wanted a midengine track toy and a cheap X1/9 has come up but it hasn't moved in years and it's rusted af. Floor pan rusted, gearbox is gone, fuel pump gone, sills are rusted, rear arches are rusty but not as bad as sills but the inside isn't too bad as it's been gutted for racing already with racing seats. Seller will probably take about £250 for the car.

Is it worth it to save the car and learn to weld/repair it or should I just spend more and get something else. Completely open but idk this platform and I have never dealt with rust before, is this a good way to learn?

 

[rmjbn1]

Hi and welcome

No! Run away and hide until it's dissolved or been dragged away and can't tempt you any more

I'm usually in favour of saving old cars, but this one would be a major challenge for someone who already has all the equipment skills and experience needed. And at the end it would still be a scruffy mess.

should I just spend more and get something else.

Maybe you meant to say 'spend less and get something else'

The money required to save this might surprise you.

Ultimately it depends on you.

If you were looking to learn welding and car mechanics anyway, invest in equipment and time to do a welding course, practice, countless hours under the car cutting, grinding, welding, filling etc as a fun project then maybe?

 

[Backwards]

Hi and welcome

No! Run away and hide until it's dissolved or been dragged away and can't tempt you any more

I'm usually in favour of saving old cars, but this one would be a major challenge for someone who already has all the equipment skills and experience needed. And at the end it would still be a scruffy mess.

Maybe you meant to say 'spend less and get something else'

The money required to save this might surprise you.

Ultimately it depends on you.

If you were looking to learn welding and car mechanics anyway, invest in equipment and time to do a welding course, practice, countless hours under the car cutting, grinding, welding, filling etc as a fun project then maybe?

Hi and thank you,

I have been on the fence for a while, but considering how strongly you feel against that, I will have to shield my eyes while I drive past it 4 times a day. I was wondering if it wouldn't be that bad, but spending less on something else does sound more appealing. After some googling, there is a local college nearby that runs a quarterly welding/metal working course that is only 600 for the full course of 6 months. I think of weekly training, which isn't bad. I might invest in that instead. Thank you

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi and welcome

No! Run away and hide until it's dissolved or been dragged away and can't tempt you any more

I'm usually in favour of saving old cars, but this one would be a major challenge for someone who already has all the equipment skills and experience needed. And at the end it would still be a scruffy mess.

If you were looking to learn welding and car mechanics anyway, invest in equipment and time to do a welding course, practice, countless hours under the car cutting, grinding, welding, filling etc as a fun project then maybe?

Definitely doesn't look like a project for someone who has little welding/fabrication skills.

Hi and thank you,

I have been on the fence for a while, but considering how strongly you feel against that, I will have to shield my eyes while I drive past it 4 times a day.

I "messed about" with Hillman Imps for a number of years and, although I sold my last one some years ago, I'd quite like another. From time to time I've seen them for sale - they were made just "down the road" from us up here in Scotland - but I've always managed to overcome the temptation after taking a close look at the amount of body/chassis repairs that would be needed, and, without sounding a bit big headed I hope, I can honestly say I'm quite handy with Gas. MIG/MAG and "stick" welders.

there is a local college nearby that runs a quarterly welding/metal working course that is only 600 for the full course of 6 months. I think of weekly training, which isn't bad. I might invest in that instead. Thank you

If you're serious about taking up welding - and I can tell you it's great fun once you learn properly and have some supervised practice under your belt - then doing a course is definitely the way to go (unless you have a welder friend who's prepared to teach you. For welding vehicles at home on a "hobby" basis you really can't beat MIG welding so ask the trainer how much of the course is devoted to MIG welding (MIG stands for Metal Inert Gas). You'll sometimes hear them referred to as MIG/MAG The MAG stands for Metal Active Gas where a shielding gas which reacts with the weld is used. Most machines will handle either but it's MIG we are interested in.

The other two common methods of welding are, Gas welding with oxy-acetylene which is wonderful for thin metals like car bodywork but there's a greater heat input so more risk of panel warping and, because there's a naked flame, much more of a fire risk - Anyway, your home insurance won't cover you to keep the bottles, especially the Acetylene bottle, at home! My insurance company had a heart attack just because I asked! It's also a fair bit more difficult to learn. MMA (Manual Metal Arc) is the old traditional way which you'll often see on old films of ship building etc. The equipment is very cheap to buy but you're definitely not going to weld the thin metal used in cars with it, unless you are very skilled and experienced. I have one - first machine I ever bought - and use it for welding chassis cracks on my old horticultural machines and I made a trailer with it many years ago.

So, you need to learn how to MIG weld. I can also recommend using a gas shielded machine - there are two types. One uses a shielding gas to keep oxygen away from the weld and the other uses flux cored welding wire where the flux becomes the shielding gas due to the heat of welding. Gas shielding gives a neater weld and, in my opinion, is slightly easier to use on very thin metal. You do need a bottle of the gas but it's completely non flammable so my insurer didn't raise any objection.

I taught welding classes for home enthusiasts for our local council community education department (evening classes to you and me) for some ten years No one wanted to do the gas, except for one or two who wanted to learn because they wanted to make works of art out of metal. Mostly they found brazing was better or learning the MIG. There was considerable demand for both the MMA and MIG with many taking one complete class for the MIG and returning for the next season to do the MMA. I think being able to do both is great if you're working on machinery/cars/etc but for cars MIG rules!

Two of my most enjoyable car related activities are welding (although the prep work can be pretty boring) and making up metal brake pipes. So do consider a welding class, I bet you love it!

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Break it before it breaks you.

 

[rmjbn1]

I will have to shield my eyes while I drive past it 4 times a day

Yeah that's going to be tough

 

[jackwhoo]

As already said run away ....very fast its too far gone

 

[Backwards]

Yes, I will definitely avoid this like the plague. Picking up welding is definitely on my to-do list now. I researched the welding course, and they teach you 4 welding techniques (TIG,MIG, oxy, and manual metal) and it's only 350 for the 3-month course. So rather than spend my money on the car, I am going to learn how to weld, buy a welder and then maybe pick up a couple of small projects, then fix the small bits of rust on my mr2 when I am confident (maybe make a whole ass subframe for it one day, one day).

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes, I will definitely avoid this like the plague. Picking up welding is definitely on my to-do list now. I researched the welding course, and they teach you 4 welding techniques (TIG,MIG, oxy, and manual metal) and it's only 350 for the 3-month course. So rather than spend my money on the car, I am going to learn how to weld, buy a welder and then maybe pick up a couple of small projects, then fix the small bits of rust on my mr2 when I am confident (maybe make a whole ass subframe for it one day, one day).

My friend, who lives in the next street to me, was one of the instructors at our local college who taught welding to north sea pipe welders - I got to know him through the welding classes I ran where I would pass on anyone on one of my "hobby" courses who wanted to get really serious about it. He let me "play" with a TIG machine a couple of times but all I ever managed was to contaminate the electrode and blow some lovely holes. We're both retired now so I don't suppose I'll ever learn it - Unfortunately.

Edit. Considering the investment in plant and consumables that price for a 3 month course sounds really good. How much actual class time do you get with it? It would be good also, once you've learned the basics, if you can buy your machine and take it in with you for at least a couple of sessions. I used to try to get my students to do this and we found quite noticeable differences between one make of machine and another. They all seemed to have little "foibles" to get used to.

 

[Backwards]

How much actual class time do you get with it?

From what I can see on their website its about 1.5 hr sessions weekly which seems fine. I would like it to be more but it seems to be a great way to get your feet wet in a safe environment. I have also had my head berried in research for great cheap MIG welders, I see there are gas-less Sealey ones which seems enticing as they are only like 120. They have a gas one for about 180 which seems to be a better buy but I first need to find some argon

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

From what I can see on their website its about 1.5 hr sessions weekly which seems fine. I would like it to be more but it seems to be a great way to get your feet wet in a safe environment. I have also had my head berried in research for great cheap MIG welders, I see there are gas-less Sealey ones which seems enticing as they are only like 120. They have a gas one for about 180 which seems to be a better buy but I first need to find some argon

That sounds ok timewise. Mine were two hour sessions once a week. Although I ran classes every night, one for basic beginners and one for "improvers" I also ran car classes. One for basic car care, one for women only and one for more advanced tasks. Quite often I had people doing a couple of them each season.

I encouraged people to bring in their own machines and so got to experience quite a number of different makes. Don't just go for the cheapest machine. You don't want to be "fighting" a poor machine at the same time as learning how to weld or when performing a difficult weld. Also MIGs need regular basic maintenance so you're going to need stuff like wire feed liners, tips (the tip where the wire exits the welding gun) The wire itself and possibly other parts as it ages. Try googling "welding supplies" for trade suppliers in your area. There are several within less than an hour's drive from me and they are all very helpful. You may find they stock a "hobby" machine with a good brand name for a very reasonable price and they'll hold spares for it. I also buy my wire etc from them. There was a specialist welding supplier in Edinburgh: https://www.northernindustrialalloys.co.uk/ who did me a CEBORA Pocket Turbo 130 at a very good price (Cebora were the first to develop and sell small MIGs and are good quality machines) Unfortunately they moved out of town some years ago and are now a good hour away for me so I haven't used them for a while. If you have a branch of Machine Mart nearby it's well worth a visit as they usually have a good selection of their Clarke branded welders on display. A number of these appeared in my classes and, whilst not of "industrial" quality, I found they were good enough for what they cost. MM are also pretty good for spare parts and consumables.

Gasses? For steel you need an Argon Co2 mix to get the smoothest most controllable weld. You can weld mild steel with just carbon dioxide but you get more spatter and the weld looks rougher - I don't like it but "the dodge" used to be that you made friends with someone who owned a pub and used the Co2 cylinders they drive the beer pumps with! For Aluminium pure Argon is used, but it's a more difficult thing to do so just stick with steel until you get your head round it all. To begin with you may want to use the disposable bottles that places like MM, Screwfix, Halfords and others sell. You don't get a lot of run time with them, maybe 20 minutes or less depending on gas supply needed for your machine, and it's an expensive way to do it. However it's probably worth using them until you find out if you're cut out for welding or not. Once you get into it more seriously you're much better to get a larger refillable cylinder. You're not going to find them in Halfords though. BOC is the biggest industrial supplier and I hired my cylinders from them when I was running the classes. Their service is very good and I had no problems with them. There is one big problem for "occasional" (hobby) users though and that is there's a yearly rent to pay for the bottle. Not too much of a problem when you're using quite a lot of gas but it becomes quite expensive when you're not regularly using large amounts of gas. So, I find the best option is where you "buy" rent free bottles. With this type you pay a once only purchase fee plus the cost of filling it with the gas when you first get your bottle and from then on all you pay for is gas fills as you need them. The one off payment is a little more than a yearly BOC rent but from then on it's free and all you're paying for is the gas when it needs filled. My local motor factor keeps SGS cylinders: https://www.sgsgases.co.uk/ and all I have to do is ring him to check he has current stock and pop round where he does a quick examination of my cylinder for damage and then swops it for an identical full one. There are more than one company doing these bottles, another I know of is Hobbyweld https://hobbyweld.co.uk/ and they have a depot about an hour's round trip from me. The Factor is just ten minutes in the car though. I think I remember him telling me the one off payment is refundable if I want to hand the cylinder back without taking a refill? I should check on that.