General Service Manual ... downloading

[Yellofrankcar]

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?
I wanted to download the service manual which was restructured (big thanks to Chris by the way!!!) and which I did partly already last month.
But to my surprise it didn't work this time, I got: "The requested page could not be found" .....
I also had a few issues with the search program (did work but was not able to open the individual threads).

Could anybody help me?

Frank

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

That's a pain. I'm away from home at the moment but I'll try to see what's happening. Can you give me the name of one of the files you tried to download unsuccessfully?

 

[Yellofrankcar]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your swift reply, I think it's a "Windows 11" issue since it didn't give me problems on my "old" laptop.
So thanks for your offer to help but It's solved for the moment.

Another question since you've been so active in all these documentation: is it possible to get a kind of "build list" of my barchetta?
What I mean is: if I open the ePer program and use my VIN number, it says the engine number (never found that one by the way) and the d.o.b. but not the colour or the options I ordered (e.g. airco, leather steering wheel, fog lights, electric mirrors etc.).
Since I do not know exactly how I ordered mine (first owner since nov. 1997 - VIN: ZFA18300000033539) I would like to know how it was ordered ..... is this possible?
Hope I don't ask to much but would really like to know if it is possible to get this from the ePer program (even when only to get from a Fiat dealer).

Regards and thanks again for all your work on the Workshop manual!!!
I have the original workshop manual which I ordered straight with the B in 1997 (although in Dutch) but it's a pig to read when I'm sitting in my lounge chair in the livingroom figuring out how to connect the power cables of my new amp, and so it's now much more convenient with your uploads.

Frank (non accidental b owner )

 

[s130]

ePER does reveal a little extra information - when you get your part page open then the top line reads:

Active selection filters: LHD - SINCOM: 183.829.0.0 - VIN: ZFA18300000033539 - N. of parts: 00033346 - Engine: 0818946 - 18/11/1997 - Col. n.: 199 - LV0 - M1 - V1 and a little key graphic at the end which you can click to get the following breakdown

VERSIONE SPECIALE NO SPECIAL VERSION (LV0)
M1.8 16V (183A1000) (M1)
VBASE (V1)
Colors/Fabrics list
‎CAP-050 CAPOTE BLACK‎
‎PAN-050 FRONT DOOR PANELS BLACK‎
‎SED-199 SEAT COVERS FABRIC GREY BLACK‎

Also if you mouse hover over Col n: 199 for example you will get a pop up of details for that item.

 

[Yellofrankcar]

Hi S130,

Nice you have an interest in this, but that's what I mean: there's almost nothing in it (not even the body color ).
I hope it's possible to get a full list of built-in options ....
Of course I should have kept the original invoice/order form, but after I've moved twice they have disappeared.
Honestly, I never expected that I would keep the car longer than 5, at most 10 years .
Today, the list of built-in options is often attached to the car by means of a sticker or the like but not my b.

Ciao,

 

[s130]

For later Fiats then ePER does tell you all about the car's specification / configuration.

For my 2015 500X we get:

5F - 500X (2015-....)
3347******** - 1.4-MAIR/2-140CV.CROSPLUS.FWD.CM.GD.
Engine: 19****** Vehicle: 03****** Manuf. date: 12/6/2015
Vin : ZFA3340000********

HORSE POWER (MARKET) 1368 (CC1.4)
POWER 1.4 M/AIR2 / 2.0 MJET : 140CV (KW103)
STEERING RIGHT (GDX)
FUEL PETROL (CMBBZ)
TRIM LEVEL EMEA=CROSS PLUS
NAFTA=TREKKING PLUS (LL5)
DRIVE TYPE 2 WHEEL DRIVE (TT4X2)
ECOLOGY EURO 6 (ECOCF6)
GEARBOX DESIGN MECH. GEARBOX 35 KGM + DDCT (PCC635)
MARKET VERSION UNITED KINGDOM/IRELAND (AM87)
MODEL YEAR 2016 MODEL YEAR (MY16)
TURBO EXHAUST FAN TURBO (A/TTRB)
12V POWER SOCKET Yes (823)
2 EXTERNAL REARVIEW MIRR. W/EL. CONTROL AND DEMIST. Yes (041)
6 SPEAKERS Yes (RCG)
ACOUSTIC COMPONENTS 1 Yes (7DF)
ADJUSTABLE FRONT SEAT BELTS Yes (198)
AIR BAG Yes (500)
ALLOY WHEELS EXTRA SERIES 12 Yes (4AY)
BUMPER EXTRA SERIES Yes (409)
CARGO BOX Yes (256)
CARPETS Yes (396)
CHROMED FRAME IN DOOR WINDOW LININGS Yes (5A5)
CLIMATE CONTROL 2 Yes (140)
COMPASS GAUGE Yes (JFA)
COOLED BOX Yes (6NT)
CRUISE CONTROL Yes (416)
DYNAMIC CONTROL SELECTOR Yes (5DD)
ELECTRIC POWER STEERING Yes (112)
ELECTRONIC ROLL MITIGATION Yes (BNS)
ENGLISH LANGUAGE HANDBOOK Yes (852)
FOG LIGHT Yes (097)
FOOT SPACE MANAGEMENT Yes (7ZG)
FRONT SEAT ARMREST Yes (132)
FRONT SIDE BAG Yes (505)
FULL BODY COVER PROTECTION Yes (7BM)
GAS DISCHARGE HEADLIGHTS Yes (230)
HEAD BAGS Yes (614)
HEIGHT ADJUSTABLE DRIVER SEAT Yes (450)
HILL HOLDER (AUTOMATIC PARKING BRAKE) Yes (056)
INSTRUMENT PANEL WITH MULTIFUNCTION DISPLAY Yes (710)
KEYLESS ENTRY - REMOTE, PROXIMITY Yes (GXD)
MEDIA HUB (USB, AUX) Yes (RS6)
METALLIC PAINT Yes (210)
MPH SPEEDOMETER Yes (046)
OVERHEAD AMBIENT SURROUND LIGHTING Yes (LCJ)
PARKING BRAKE ELECTRICAL DRIVE Yes (026)
PARKING SENSOR Yes (508)
PARTIAL PRE-SHAPED Yes (5YY)
PASSENGER AIRBAG DISABLE Yes (4DK)
PASSENGER SIDE AIRBAG Yes (502)
PLATE OF ASSISTANCE Yes (6HQ)
PTC HEATER Yes (52Y)
REAR ELECTRIC WINDOWS Yes (023)
REMOVABLE TRUNK COVER Yes (209)
SAFE LOCK (SUPERLOCKING) Yes (064)
SEATBACK POCKET Yes (339)
SPARE WHEEL Yes (803)
SPECIAL DOOR PANELS Yes (784)
SPECIFIC DASHBOARD BAND Yes (6T1)
SPECIFIC DOOR PANELS 2 Yes (7SJ)
SPECIFIC EXHAUST TUBING Yes (947)
SPECIFIC LONGITUDINAL BEAM FOR ROOF TOP CARGO CARRIER Yes (375)
SPLIT REAR SEAT Yes (40H)
SPOILER Yes (923)
STEERING WHEEL AND SHIFT STICK HANDLE WITH LEATHER LINING Yes (320)
STEERING WHEEL CONTROLS 2 Yes (5BH)
STOP&START Yes (5DE)
TECH B Yes (5GY)
TINTED WINDOWS Yes (070)
TOW HOOK Yes (960)
TPMS 2 IND. (TIREPRESSURE MONITORING SYSTEM 2) Yes (7B2)
TRACTION CONTROL Yes (941)
UCONNECT ACCESS VIA MOBILE Yes (RSW)
VARNISHED EXTERNAL REARVIEW MIRRORS Yes (976)
VEHICLE DYNAMIC CONTROL (VDC) Yes (392)
VP2 - RADIO 5" TOUCHSCREEN WITH BLUETOOTH AND NAV (WITHOUT DAB) Yes (6Q8)
WINDSCREEN WITH PVB Yes (73L)

 

[ben]

"The requested page could not be found"

Do you mean when trying to download the files here from the forum?

That shouldn't happen - which file/part was it?

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

Another question since you've been so active in all these documentation: is it possible to get a kind of "build list" of my barchetta?

Sadly, not that I've been able to find as I'd love to see this data. When I was looking into this I found two files on the ePer disc that contained build information. One only has very sparse data while the other is a lot richer. Sadly the Barchetta is only in the former file.
As someone keen on preserving things this frustrates me. I'm sure that somewhere within Fiat this data was once available but whether it's still around is another matter. I feel the same about the service manuals, it's great that someone took the trouble to scan them but I can't help but think that they were electronic documents to start with and so exist somewhere. The Right to Repair movement has done well in getting change for electronic devices and I wonder whether a similar movement would get car manufacturers to release service manuals for older cars? There could be issues that older cars can have sub-systems that are in use by more modern cars. I'll get off my soapbox now, it's been a bad week!

For later Fiats then ePER does tell you all about the car's specification / configuration.

Yes, it's frustrating that the data is there for those cars and not for the B. I guess it may have come with a change of internal systems at Fiat.

Do you mean when trying to download the files here from the forum?

That shouldn't happen - which file/part was it?

Ben, the OP resolved their own issue but whether there is a wider Win 11 issue I don't know, I'm not looking to upgrade yet so can't test it:

Thanks for your swift reply, I think it's a "Windows 11" issue since it didn't give me problems on my "old" laptop.
So thanks for your offer to help but It's solved for the moment

 

[s130]

Getting "permission" from Fiat to host old copies of Service Manuals is in my experience impossible. A long time ago I used to send product reports and liaise with Fiat Technical in the UK. One of the guys moved on to become a UK overall manager for parts and servicing etc. Mr.X

I had privately spent hours and hours photographing the old Strada Abarth parts microfiche slides (that I bought from Fiat via dealer parts department many years ago ) for my own use. Bearing in mind dealers can no longer get pats information for many older cars that is only on microfiche, they have to go and trouble/ask Fiat Part Technical Support, I contacted Mr.X with the idea a putting the work I had done as a web resource for both car owners, Fiat UK, dealers etc. I gave Mr.X a link to my private active slides and he thought it was a great idea and liked it BUT COULD NOT authorise this as with Copyright issues etc. that falls under the remit of UK Legal Dept. and Mr.Y. Mr.Y was sent info and request by Mr.X and I chased up Mr.Y but to no avail. Zilch!

I liken this to asking a police man if you can temporarily park on a double yellow line. Answer will be NO. However if you are temporarily parked on a double yellow a reasonable police officer (not traffic warden) comes along then you will likely hear "you won't be here when I come back will you Sir".

I even contacted Fiat "CENTRO ARCHIVIO STORICO \(FIAT S.P.A.\)" who apparently hold the Copyright to "old" stuff. Email was read (2012) but I got no reply despite a second follow-up attempt.

During my efforts to do what I wanted I contacted my old Patent Attorney for the possible legal implications etc. All very complicated but in essence there are several things that have to be considered. e.g. access to all or part for personal use (like copying bits in a library), access audit trail (who and when), commercial value / commercial, business damage, are you charging, ensuring copyright and terms of usage are clearly documented and agreed to, mechanism(s) to withdraw data, mechanism(s) to comply with desist orders, etc. etc. What was the MOST import part was I had an audit trail and proof of contact for permission and no response. So was my time an effort wasted? No!

This begs the question about other sites that host copyrighted material for download. Chances are that if it is old stuff then the Copyright Owner will turn a blind eye and not be bothered with the time and expense in taking action. The risk to those that do and have not sought approval, taken care of some of the stuff my attorney mentioned etc. then it could hurt.

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

That sounds incredibly frustrating but I can see that in any organization where people are covering there backs it is easier to say no than yes and so that however many Mr. X's say Yes it only takes one Mr.Y and the whole things falls apart.
What the Right to Repair movement have manged to get is some legislation that would give that Mr. Y some sense that his back was covered as he's complying with legislation. A top down 'you should do this' rather than a bottom up 'will you do this' if you like.

 

[s130]

The right to repair does not stop a manufacturer from charging for the technical information to effect the repair. It basically means they must provide the information and supply parts to effect the repair. i.e. they can not withhold repair information and parts for their exclusive use. Also they can not deliberately design a product (in certain classes?) that is not able to be repaired when it fails. This is my *basic* understanding of this.

 

[Wiltshire Chris]

Probably a better understanding than mine and I really should do more looking into it. My earlier post wasn't well worded. My hope was that a legislative 'yes' could trump a lot of jobsworth 'no's if the right legislation was brought about.

 

[s130]

Probably a better understanding than mine and I really should do more looking into it. My earlier post wasn't well worded. My hope was that a legislative 'yes' could trump a lot of jobsworth 'no's if the right legislation was brought about.

Well actually your were not far off the mark in many respects. "The Right To Repair" (still not fully legal in all US states but getting there - not sure about EU status) has actually already made changes I believe in how manufacturers etc. think and practice. How this all pans out in the end is another matter.

I remember back in the 70s and early 80s you could (for example) repair dynamos and alternators because bushes, regulator packs, diode packs, bearings etc. were readily available. Years later the sub component parts were not retail/trade available but recondition units were or you had to buy New.

How this all will legally and practically work out I don't know. Does your right to repair mean you can easily get and replace a washing machine drum bearing. I would say definitely yes. However a replacement CPU board for a fuel injection ECU (right to repair my ECU) will probably be a totally different story.

 

[Yellofrankcar]

Maybe I can contact the Italian barchetta club and ask if they have a better contact for the build list….
I will keep you informed.