Technical Seicento 1.4 16v Project

[J333EVO]

Tidy, they're good leads too, and of course, will look the part

Jordan

Yeah they do look good. Maybe talking to you about some calipers mounts to make life easier and quicker for the rear disc conversion.

 

[J.R Racing]

I've ordered some 16v magnecors KV85's as they worked a treat on the 1108, i wonder how they'll compare!

 

[J333EVO]

I've ordered some 16v magnecors KV85's as they worked a treat on the 1108, i wonder how they'll compare!

I've never had an issue with Magnecors, I use them on my integrale, and did on my Cinq, but many integrale owners do not rate them at all, high failure rate I believe, though as I say I never had an issue and even still have a set of KV85;s for a 8V that I do not need anymore lying around.

These leads look to be very well made, with a lovely finish, though I do not think ignition leads offer any improvements over standard leads,its just standard leads tend to break down after time and you fit new leads and get big improvements over a tired lead.

Emma also has the K1's on the turbo and seem to be perfect.

 

[panda-sport]

These leads look to be very well made, with a lovely finish, though I do not think ignition leads offer any improvements over standard leads,its just standard leads tend to break down after time and you fit new leads and get big improvements over a tired lead.

I agree, but people forget they are a service item

 

[J.R Racing]

I also chose Magnecor because blue leads would look foul on my car tbh!

Its all themed black and red, so the Magencors look good too.

 

[arc]

its why my car has kv85's. cos they're the right colour

 

[The younger modder]

Very nice conversion and if its any where as impressive as a 100HP when finnished then id be damn impressed :yum:

few questions for future though im hoping you can answer :worship:

your using the 1.2 inlet manifold? and youve got rid of the coil per cylinder system

could either of these contributed to the 11bhp or so extra the 1.4 had over the 1.2 16v? i understand theres "no replacement for displacement" just wondering if the above made the difference in conjunction with the extra cappacity?

How long has this engine been made for now? i was impressd with it in the panda it felt lively and the 6 speed box enabled you to get the best out of it :devil: but in the GP the weight hampered its performance, i didnt know it had been made/fitted to a car before the GP what models etc was it fitted to in the stilo etc?

i couldnt agree more with getting rid of the flybi wire setup its the most annoying part of my arosa :bang: but again would this have made a difference to the performance? and would it alter the smoothness? i know it does on mine compared to a mk1 arosa?

last of all good luck with it all

wayne

 

[randomizered]

That engine was also found in the Stilo, Idea, Punto mk2b, from 2004 ish onwards, but are very hard to find.

Kristian

 

[J333EVO]

Very nice conversion and if its any where as impressive as a 100HP when finnished then id be damn impressed :yum:

few questions for future though im hoping you can answer :worship:

your using the 1.2 inlet manifold? and youve got rid of the coil per cylinder system

could either of these contributed to the 11bhp or so extra the 1.4 had over the 1.2 16v? i understand theres "no replacement for displacement" just wondering if the above made the difference in conjunction with the extra cappacity?

How long has this engine been made for now? i was impressd with it in the panda it felt lively and the 6 speed box enabled you to get the best out of it :devil: but in the GP the weight hampered its performance, i didnt know it had been made/fitted to a car before the GP what models etc was it fitted to in the stilo etc?

i couldnt agree more with getting rid of the flybi wire setup its the most annoying part of my arosa :bang: but again would this have made a difference to the performance? and would it alter the smoothness? i know it does on mine compared to a mk1 arosa?

last of all good luck with it all

wayne

Firsty thanks for the feedback, the cars loom is currently sitting unravelled so it can be joined to the Emerald ECU.

The inlet manifold may have had a small differance in power, but probably more down to throttle body size, its 40mm on the 1.2 and 48mm on the 1.4 IIRC, but eth 1.2 manifold is half aluminium so can be port matched to head if you work on the head, something you can't do to the 100% plastic 1.4 manifold.

The coil packs will have no difference to the power output, there are arguments that the wasted spark system is better as it keeps engine cleaner by firing spark on reverse cycle.

The thing with flybywire throttle is that it is normally linked to the ECU and when you give it full throttle it monitors the ABS sensors and only gives the amount of torque it believes the wheels can take, so you never actually get full throttle especially in lower gears, but of course this does not take into account the fact that you may have fitted bigger stickier rubber, so you are restricted to the control tyre that was used when the system was developed. This is why there is a delay from when you put your foot down to when the car accelerates. It also does this at higher speeds gears IIRC, you plant foot, it works out most economical throttle position to gain speed so again you do not get full throttle. I am sure in time it will get better but for now its a bit dim witted.

As for engines I see Kritip has answered the query

 

[randomizered]

Would it also have been an option to have retained the coil per plug and just split the 2 LT leads to the two single coils so they still ran wasted spark, if you get what I mean.

I understand the coils are on the plug end? I think the advantage of doing it this way is that the HT has a much shorter path, giving a stronger and more reliable spark, or does it not work like this?

I currently deciding whether to retain the 1.2 coil pack on mine, or use the 1.1 coil packs, the 1.2 only runs one LT cable though? and I guess the 1.4 has 4 LT wires, unlike the 1.1 which has 2 LT wires. Confusing eh!

Kristian

 

[The younger modder]

Aaron thanks very much for the reply you confirmed what i though in that there would be a substantial size difference in throttle body (although your changing this) and also differences in the inlet manifold although i image you will be modding this if necesary to suit the mystery throttle body

slightly off topic but the sizes still surprize me on the TB's on fiats though for example my 1.4 8v is 50mm and the 16v version which is equivilent to the engine emma is using uses a 65mm throttle body compared to the 48mm in this case quite a size difference there

is there and sensible way of doing this conversion using the donor cars ecu and loom and therefore save a fair bit of money on the standalone management? or is it simply not worth it? just i notice theres of course the usual Remaps available for the GP using this lump so it could be remapped to suit the added mods youve done in this case :yum:

kritip thanks for the info on the models and i know there damn rare from reading your thread but not giving up hope just yet :devil: :bang:

wayne

 

[J333EVO]

We are using a larger throttle body, once its in and Emma has taken some pics of it we'll say what it is, as it is very different, will surprise a few I think.

There are many reason why manufacturers use the sizes of throttle bodies that they do, my mate had an MGF as standard it has a 48mm TB, but just by putting on the 58mm TB from a Lotus gave it about 10bhp, but cost is normally the deciding factor.

There is no reason that this conversion can't be done with the standard ECU as it has been wit hthe 1.2 16V conversions, the engines are pretty much the same except for the bore/stroke and the higher compression on the 1.4

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

We are using a larger throttle body, once its in and Emma has taken some pics of it we'll say what it is, as it is very different, will surprise a few I think.

You're right there - think a few people will follow what you've done with that

Jordan

 

[J333EVO]

You're right there - think a few people will follow what you've done with that

Jordan

They may do, though it is a little unconventional and as we are using the Emerald ECU not really a problem as has different connections on it to a Fiat one.

Aaron.

 

[foxyemx]

Right bit of an update on progress today,
Firstly i realised i haven't taken any photos of the emerald ecu, so here it is..

As you can see its a mass of wires at the mo, not a 5 minute job to wire up a new ecu

Lots of diagrams scattered everywhere lol

An oil temperature sensor has been fitted in the sump.

Coil packs are now in place on a custom mounting plate..

Oh and an end to the mystery, Can anyone guess what car this throttle body is off ?

emma.

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

I have an unfair advantage, so i'll keep stump

Adaptor plate looks good though
Jordan

 

[randomizered]

Looking good

Cabling looks hectic at the mo but sure that will tidy up nicely!

Not a clue on the TB, but, is that butterfly plastic? or just painted black? If I get a random guess, I will stab in the dark at a .... rover


Kristian

 

[foxyemx]

Looking good

Cabling looks hectic at the mo but sure that will tidy up nicely!

Not a clue on the TB, but, is that butterfly plastic? or just painted black? If I get a random guess, I will stab in the dark at a .... rover


Kristian

Yeah its a totally plastic TB off a Rover, lucky guess
Its off something like an MGF, dad can't quite remember lol.

Its a 50mm TB for those wondering!

 

[J333EVO]

Yeah that is a dam lucky guess, but as Emma said a Rover K series plastic throttle body, plastic butterfly which has 4 mounting points, whereas the inlet manifold has 3. So 10mm thick adaptor plate was made with sunken fixing holes to bolt to inlet, and then tapped to allow the throttle body to be bolted to that, though one of the mounting points on the TB had to be moved as it was overlying one to the inlet, but not straight enough to be bolted straight through, so it had be re-drilled than have a new metal sleeve inserted to take the load as you can't just bolt plastic up.

Then the accelerator cable bracket had be be modified to accept the Sei cable and have full correct movement, but all in its great, and even has one of the electronic plugs are same as Fiat

It has a 70mm opening and tapers down to 50mm then the adaptor plate is tapered down to match the inlet which i think is 44mm.

 

[randomizered]

lol, can't believe I was correct :slayer:

Must be my 6th sense :idea:

Kristian