Technical Seicento 1.4 16v Project

[J333EVO]

did you use the Sei's diff cups? I would've thought they'd be different on the stilo, i know they differed on puntos(55/60) to bravas

Yes they were used from Sei box, they are only held in place with C clips, so pry bar removes them with ease.

 

[arc]

what size are the stilo ones, and do you have any need for them? still trying to track down a cup for chris' brava you see.

 

[J333EVO]

Bummer! I've been using wasted spark for 30 years or so, since I first fitted a Lucas Rita to a Ducati. Of course, there were no emissions issues then............:slayer: I'd guess it is fairly effective, albeit less so than Alfa's wasted spark plug!

While I can't see it being less good per se than a single coil per cylinder set up, without a driver for each plug (and each injector) you can only tune to the weakest cylinder (the one which detonates first). Ideally you'd like to mix fuelling and advance to get the most power out of each individual cylinder. :yum:

Thanks for the stuff on the wheels -- should actually be an easier fit on a Cinq than on a Sei.

The Emerald can run upto 6 injectors, 3 coils, 32 speed steps, so you are fueling for individual cylinders. And there is no reason why you can't advance fueling for cylinders, all wasted spark is that on the other stroke it fires the spark plug which keeps the cylinder clean.

All info on the Emerald site. I know someone else on here is looking at using Omex on his MPi conversion, so there are lots of options out there including the Megasquirt.

 

[J333EVO]

what size are the stilo ones, and do you have any need for them? still trying to track down a cup for chris' brava you see.

Ah I don't know, believe it or not when we received the engine/box one was missing, it was just about the only thing that was, seeing as we got all ancillaries with it.

 

[EvilJaxx]

Aaron, from my last post I meant no diss to the Seicento as I owned and loved my own for around 3 years... I was simply commenting on the chassis mainly...

Is there any plans to improve on the Sei's chassis for this build as lets be honest its abit wobbly compared to other cars even double its size.

Will you be planning different bushes and maybe a custom enlarged anti role bar? Another question is the 1.4 GT engine was always argued to heavy for the Seicento so how does the new 1.4 compare in weight to the 1.1 engine?

And last of all the 100HP Panda engine is slightly more powerful than the 1.4 from the GP lump... Is this just a slightly better map or is it to do with the 11 compression on the Panda

Thanks

Adam

 

[J333EVO]

No worries mate, the engine is from a Stilo so has 95bhp and 94lbs ft torque, the Panda has I think 98bhp the 100 comes from German PS instead of BHP which is higher, so a slightly more aggressive map, but to be fair not much in it. The engines all run same compression ratio.

Its a fire engine, it is not much heavier than the original engine, no more than a 1242, if anything may even be slightly lighter due to alloy sump, so handling will not be affected in the way it does when fitting eth heavy UT/GT engine.

The car is a 51 Abarth with only 20K on it, so still feels very fresh and has much more torsional strength than the Cinqs when you drive them side by side. So at present it has H&R springs to complement the standard set up. You only really feel a difference with poly bushes when the standard rubber ones feel tired, just fitting new rubber bushes will feel brilliant compared to old tired ones. Poly bushes will actually make the ride harsher and transmit more road noise through the car. No thicker anti rioll bar as this will only induce more under steer, though we do have an Eibach one on the Cinq, its still under test TBH as not sure it makes any improvement over standard.

So with the car being in great condition and with uprated spring rates added to a wider track due to broader wheels and an ET19 offset will go a long way to making the car still feel composed, but comfortable at same time as it will be Emma’s everyday car with the turbo maybe being the more extreme one as it has Weitech suspension, Eibach anti roll bar etc, so it handles brilliant, but is fairly solid in ride.

THis of course may be revised once its all running, but this is the thought process at present.

 

[randomizered]

Are the fuel rail and injectors from the mk1 punto, or are they the stilo's fitted to the mk1 inlet manifold?

Do you know the engine code for this particular one, I have put a feeler out to a few places but that would help them along a lot

Also can I be a pain and ask for more piccies In particular, the engine mounts, the inlet side of things, and a pic of what the mk1 TB looks like as well. Pretty please

Are you going for custom induction or off the shelf?

Kristian

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

Are the fuel rail and injectors from the mk1 punto, or are they the stilo's fitted to the mk1 inlet manifold?

Do you know the engine code for this particular one, I have put a feeler out to a few places but that would help them along a lot

Also can I be a pain and ask for more piccies In particular, the engine mounts, the inlet side of things, and a pic of what the mk1 TB looks like as well. Pretty please

Are you going for custom induction or off the shelf?

Kristian

Think he mentioned CDA earlier as im not sure GSR have a one out for the 1.4? could be wrong though, and could be down to preference

Aaron/Emz - completely agree with the stiffer roll bar on centos in general, they dont do much at all, just induce understeer, if there were more weight above, then the motion from bodyroll would help plant the arm and pull right, but they just seem to not allow for the little extra flex. If i had a cento, i would just probably take the standard off, Repaint (as its off) to match a top strut, and polybush it, leaves with correct amount of torsion/tension in bar due to thickness, but initial roadholding would be slightly improved IMO, or even at least made more efficient, and it would be going through another bush anyway so roadnoise would not increase, if any. All in my opinion of course

Jordan

 

[EvilJaxx]

No worries mate, the engine is from a Stilo so has 95bhp and 94lbs ft torque, the Panda has I think 98bhp the 100 comes from German PS instead of BHP which is higher, so a slightly more aggressive map, but to be fair not much in it. The engines all run same compression ratio.

99 BHP it is with 97 Lb/ft torque

 

[J333EVO]

99 BHP it is with 97 Lb/ft torque

Yeah in the Stilo this engine produces 95bhp@5800rpm & 94lbsft@4500rpm whereas the Panda 100HP makes 99hp@6000rpm & 97lbsft@4250rpm so not much in it.

Therefore with the Superspint manifold, hi-flow CAT large bore exhaust, bigger throttle body with nice induction kit and Emerald ECU all mapped it should we hope have about 115bhp and 110lbsft with none of the engines internals touched, so as relaible as Fiat intended (is that a good thing lol) and none of the problems of tuning the smaller capacity engines like the hi-boost turbo's etc

 

[allanhelen]

Aaron/Emz - completely agree with the stiffer roll bar on centos in general, they dont do much at all, just induce understeer, if there were more weight above, then the motion from bodyroll would help plant the arm and pull right, but they just seem to not allow for the little extra flex. If i had a cento, i would just probably take the standard off, Repaint (as its off) to match a top strut, and polybush it, leaves with correct amount of torsion/tension in bar due to thickness, but initial roadholding would be slightly improved IMO, or even at least made more efficient, and it would be going through another bush anyway so roadnoise would not increase, if any. All in my opinion of course

Jordan

I am not a big fan of the thicker anti roll bar, I fitted an Eibach on mine (before lowering I might add) and it ruined the handling so took it off. Once it was lowered I tried it again but I still prefered the std roll bar set up so swaped back and sold the Eibach (for more than I paid for it which was nice).

 

[EvilJaxx]

Aaron,

Do you know of any manufactor making aftermarket panel filters for the 100HP such as the K&N panel filter?

Or even a decent Induction kit such as a GSR or Novitec... I am not going to do anything major to the 100HP but am just after a less restrictive air flow. Also with regards to the TB, I know the Panda 100HP's is flyby wire but is there anyway of enlarging this TB?

Regards

Adam

 

[randomizered]

Seeing as though I asked here, and have nowhere else to share the information, the engine code for the 1368cc 16V is 188A6.000

Hopefully be of use to some people

Kristian

//edit - looking about some sites say this is the 1368, some say its 1.7L so take it with a pinch of salt

 

[J333EVO]

Aaron,

Do you know of any manufactor making aftermarket panel filters for the 100HP such as the K&N panel filter?

Or even a decent Induction kit such as a GSR or Novitec... I am not going to do anything major to the 100HP but am just after a less restrictive air flow. Also with regards to the TB, I know the Panda 100HP's is flyby wire but is there anyway of enlarging this TB?

Regards

Adam

I believe that GSR are making one, as for other stuff, don't know, we are prob going BMC CDA as we are using a non Fiat throttle body so going for a generic kit that fits to that size of throttle body.

 

[custard]

Aaron,

Do you know of any manufactor making aftermarket panel filters for the 100HP such as the K&N panel filter?

Or even a decent Induction kit such as a GSR or Novitec... I am not going to do anything major to the 100HP but am just after a less restrictive air flow. Also with regards to the TB, I know the Panda 100HP's is flyby wire but is there anyway of enlarging this TB?

Regards

Adam

strangly enough novitec do a novitec filter unless theres a different filter housing on the 100

http://shophost.net/shop_n/catalog/default.php?cPath=1_25

 

[EvilJaxx]

strangly enough novitec do a novitec filter unless theres a different filter housing on the 100

Sadly yes Fiat used a much new less restrictive airbox on the 100 compared to the other Panda's as the 100 engine is naturally completely different to the 1.2 and 1.3 Diesel models.

So have to wait for someone to bring something out!

Hurry GSR with the 100HP Airbox!

Regards
Adam

 

[J333EVO]

Yeah had noticed that Novitec had deleted loads of Cinq/Sei stuff as was wanting to look at there lock reducers as with fitting eth 6 speed box its about 20mm longer and the hweel catches it just on full lock, fortunetly a solution was made with some tough nylon that Jon managed to come by that worked perfect, so now have 2 3/4 turn lock to lock rather than 3 works a treat.

Eviljaxx passed me a link to GSR to say they have released a Panda 100hp induction kit http://www.gsr-uk.co.uk/engineering/pages/productsbycar/fiat/fiat_panda2.htm

More updates to follow soon. I took delivery of the full set of brake callipers from a Marea 155HLX today and as I thought although it has bigger discs it uses same callipers as found on Punto GT's so 257mm vented discs will be fitted with the 240mm solids at the rear which is same set up as the Panda 100hp.

 

[fingers99]

some tough nylon that Jon managed to come by

Ah, Nylatron? Handy stuff for bushes and suchlike. You guys don't happen to have the dimensions for the lock reducers scribbled down, perchance?

 

[foxyemx]

Latest purchase for the project are these K1 Racing ignition leads which i found brand new on ebay for a bargain price of £36 They retail at around £80 in shops

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

Tidy, they're good leads too, and of course, will look the part

Jordan