General Saving Panda Graham: Rotten Rubber

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General Saving Panda Graham: Rotten Rubber

CaptainTuba

West Wilts Panda Reserve
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
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121
Location
Wilts
Hi folks, it's a while since I've done anything to Graham. But now my son has decided he wants to drive so I'm getting stuck in again.

I need a little advice, so I hope you can help.
Most of the rubber bits in the transmission, suspension, ball joints etc are starting to go. So I've stripped down the near side suspension and hub. Thanks Alan for the great guide I read the Haynes & Porter, but found it much easier using Alan's guide.

Shock

Has anyone replaced the dust covers on a front shock before?
attachment.php


As you can see the dust cover (buffer) is shredded, it's the same on the other side too. (I know I must find a spring compressor or get someone to do it.)
The dealer gave me part no. 4409263 @ £19.62 ex VAT
Is there cheaper source for them or another way to fix it?

Ball Joints
Next on the list is the bottom ball joint - both sides.
The dealer quoted the Ball-joint and hub carrier; part no. 5995503 @ £69.38 ex VAT :cry:

I've found on the web the same thing aka S4P514 @ £27.76 - getting there.
I've also found ball-joints on their own for between £4 and £8 (QH QST839S).

I can use a friends press to get them out. Is it just a case of:
  • using a splitter to get it off the track control arm
  • removing the circlip
  • pressing the old one out
  • pressing the new one in - do you add grease to help it in?
  • replacing the circlip
  • bolt back in place

Inner CV Boots
Last on the list are the inner drive shaft boots. The dealer price is much more reasonable LHS £6.32 & RHS £3.99.

With the shock removed and the hub out of the way, I think all I've got to do now is:
  • Remove the bolts clamping the inner boot to the gearbox.
  • Catch the oil - or drain the gearbox first.
  • Then pull the drive shaft out.
  • On the bench remove the spider from the drive shaft
  • Cut the cable-ties holding the boot on and remove the boot.
  • Put the new boot on and reassemble
Is there anything special to watch out for?

Whilst I'm working in this part of the car is there anything else I should check that isn't obvious?
Brakes & disks seem OK. The other rubber bits will last a bit longer yet - I hope.
I plan to slap on plenty of Waxol when I'm finished too.

Oh one more thing the lad wants to paint the brake calipers - any tips on preparation and painting?

Many Thanks
C.T.
 

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Joined
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Messages
135
Has anyone replaced the dust covers on a front shock before?
https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment....d=11901560 51

I think most people just rip off the remaining bits and leave the strut bare. Not all new cars are fitted with boots.

* using a splitter to get it off the track control arm
* removing the circlip
* pressing the old one out

Big lump hammer works as well.

* pressing the new one in - do you add grease to help it in?

The tricky bit is pressing the joint in square. Because of the shape of the upright it is difficult to get the press in there. It also takes plenty of force. Grease may help but I don't think it actually makes much difference.

Are the joints shot or just the rubbers? If the joints are OK then you could transfer the rubbers from the new joints.
* Remove the bolts clamping the inner boot to the gearbox.
* Catch the oil - or drain the gearbox first.
* Then pull the drive shaft out.
* On the bench remove the spider from the drive shaft
* Cut the cable-ties holding the boot on and remove the boot.
* Put the new boot on and reassemble

Is there anything special to watch out for?

Nope. That's about it. The spider is held on with an ordinary circlip. Remember when you refill the box, don't use EP90. You must use the correct Fiat oil. It is probably worth looking closely at the outer boots while you have the shafts out. If there is any sign or wear or cracking, now is the time to replace them.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
135
I had no problem getting ZC90 from my local dealer. I might look into Castrol Syntrax next time I change the oil.
 
Joined
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Messages
135
I just had a look on the Castrol website and they recommend Castrol Edge sport 25W-50 which is an engine oil :confused:
 

Alan.D

Ban the Mongol rally
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
13,622
Location
West Cumbria
Getting ZC90 is not a problem for the dealers but they are just not prepared to pay the carridge costs as it's now a special order as very few cars use it, so they can't buy it in bulk. Before the Istanbul trip apparently I got the last litre available in the country.
 
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CaptainTuba

CaptainTuba

West Wilts Panda Reserve
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
121
Location
Wilts
Thanks for the help folks.

Shocker Boots
I think most people just rip off the remaining bits and leave the strut bare. Not all new cars are fitted with boots.

My Porter manual says:
INSIDE INFORMATION: A very common MoT failure point is the front shock absorber shroud, which splits and drops down, opening the shock absorber to the elements....

However looking at this MOT information site, I can't see a reason to fail the MoT for damaged shocker boots. So I'll just prune it back hard.:)

OIL
Remember when you refill the box, don't use EP90.

This web site suggests that it is the GL5 bit that's important too:

GL5 gear oil is a lubricant with very high extreme pressure performance needed for Hypoid gears where sliding and rolling contacts operate under very high loadings. This is achieved by incorporating high concentration of sulfurized additives. The downside to such high sulfur in oil is it tends to corrode yellow metals, so can ruin parts like brass synchronizers and some bushings. So any equipment needing GL5 performance is designed taking this limitation of the lubricant into account.

GL4 oils are much more friendly to yellow metals, and so are used in equipment where such high load sliding-rolling contacts aren't present. The designers of such equipment aren't as limited in the use of brass parts. So the bottom line is that if your equipment calls for GL4 it probably doesn't need GL5 performance, and you may be asking for trouble down the line if you use a lube it wasn't designed for.

As I understand it the higher the GL number the higher the performance.
ZC90 is a 80w/90 GL3 non EP oil
ZC80 is the same as ZC90 except its GL4 EP

I've read elsewhere that 15w40 is OK. So I'll use that for now and change to something better on the next change. I found this link on oil interesting to read too.

Hub Nut stuck
I've just started to work on the drivers side and I can't get the hut nut undone. I've chisselled back the captive bits, used easing oil over several days, heated it with the blow lamp and broke and bent tools. :(
Q: Is the RHS hub nut a normal thread? (I can't find anything to say otherwise)
Q: What else can I do to shift the hub nut?:confused:

Thanks
C.T.
 
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CaptainTuba

CaptainTuba

West Wilts Panda Reserve
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
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Location
Wilts
I'm making steady progress.

My nuts are free
We managed to shift the stuck drive shaft nut.
My friend bought along a 3/4" socket set - and a heafty lump hammer.
We put the road wheel back on and took it off the axle stands. I jammed on the brakes and whilst my friend gave the nut a good whacking. Success! :slayer:

Meanwhile fun with the other drive shaft.
Spider and boot came off OK. I used a couple of small screw driver like tyre levers to get the boot over the drive shaft seal.
I was really surprise by the amount of muck in drive shaft seal. :eek: See attached pic. I suppose it is muck that is driven under the boot but couldn't get passed where the boot was cable tied to the seal.

attachment.php


I presume that I have to use a similar method to stretch the new boot back over the seal too. :confused:

Cheers
C.T.
 

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CaptainTuba

CaptainTuba

West Wilts Panda Reserve
Joined
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Messages
121
Location
Wilts
Re: Saving Panda Graham: Oil Seal - drive shaft

Hi folks - looks like Gaydon was a good meet.
Meanwhile I spent a couple of hours tinkering on Graham the Panda.
Please can you help with some advice on the drive shaft. I've had a look in the books and searched the forum too, but I'm still not sure?

LHS drive shaft oil seal.
This seal is starting to break up with rust. The rust is on the outboard side so bits shouldn't get into the gearbox. I think it best to replace it.
When you get a new boot does it come with a new oil seal?
How do you get the old drive shaft oil seal off?:confused:
Heat it up and try and tap the shaft out?

More Rust
Found another bit of rust/structural paint.:( In the double skin section at the lower part of the RHS inner wing. From inside the engine bay down by the alternator & pump you can poke your finger into the double section and feel rust inside. It doesn't look too structural - so I'll clean out the gunge from the void and slap in some Waxoyl.

Other progress:
Got the RHS drive shaft out and cleaned up. The RHS boot is OK. :)
Took the alternator & starter out to clean up all the oily gunge from the front of the engine. I hope it's just been oil spilt when topping up. Took the wheel arch protectors out & took the bumper off. Started cleaning up the brake and suspension bits.

Cheers C.T.
 
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CaptainTuba

CaptainTuba

West Wilts Panda Reserve
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
121
Location
Wilts
We don't have anyone who has worked on such an old car in today

When you get a new boot does it come with a new oil seal?

I managed to call my nearest dealer and they confirmed that the oil seal/bearing is a separate part: 92601390 £8.63+VAT.
I asked about removing it and he confirmed that there weren't any circlips holding it in so it should probably slide off. Since mine a stuck on real hard, I asked if there was anyone who could confirm it - he said:
We don't have anyone who has worked on such an old car in today.
:p

They also confirmed that drive shaft nuts: 7787313 were £2.66 each + Vat

So there's a few more things to add to the shopping list.
 
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CaptainTuba

CaptainTuba

West Wilts Panda Reserve
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Wilts
I spoke to the FIAT garage and they've confirmed that the oil seal is just an interference fit.

They said they use a 10 tonne press to change them. :eek:

Though, apparently, you can remove them by tapping them off at 6 o'clock and then 12 o'clock.
To put them back on - you need a length of pipe just a bit bigger than the shaft so that it presses on the inside part of the oil seal. Then press it back on.

So now I know - I've just got to get on with it.
 
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