Technical Rusty bits - suspension

[124BC1]

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If I were to do this again then I would probably take the car to a four computerised laser wheel aligment specialist to get the basic geometry measurements. Then return home and use basic maths etc. to work out what changes are required for the rear alignment. Make those by shimming and then return to the specialist for a re-measurement.

You could get the specialist to do all the work but unlike some more modern cars the work required for strip down, re-shimming etc. is probably going to break the bank!

I think the 4 wheel laser alignment specialist are more used to doing adjustments on modern cars that have either bars/arms that have threaded rod ends or cam type bolts/bushes as opposed to adjustment by shims.
Perhaps a classic car specialist or body-shop that caters for classic cars might be a better and cheaper choice?

 

[s130]

I think there may be a slight typo in your txt file - where you say the rear left wheel is pointing to 30 mm outside the front right wheel, I assume you meant to write :- the rear left wheel was pointing to 30mm outside the front left wheel? But this doesn't make any real difference to your explanation - just had me confused as to how the left wheel could be toed-in so much...

Well spotted and thanks. I've updated my notes at this end AND the file attached to the original post

 

[smahaley]

Did you read all my posts dealing with possible ways of removing the lower A arm bushes? i.e. Posts # 25,34,42,47 and 59....

There is a special tool available for removing/installing these arm bushes but as I previously suggested it's probably not cost effective for a one-off-use (well, 8 uses actually as there are 8 bushes) - however, seeing the tool included and reading through the tool usage instructions might give you some ideas. I think I did suggest that using a hydraulic press made removing the lower bushes a lot easier i.e. use the lower arm pivot pin to push out the bushes (do you know anyone with a workshop press or can you get access to one? Just be careful not to bend the A arm.. ).

Front A arm bush tool:-

View attachment 482635


Instructions for using the bush removal/installation tools:-

View attachment 482636

I noticed there were signs of some welding having been carried out on one of the front crossmembers shown and also somebody likes negative camber, going by the number of shims installed. (too much negative camber causes the lower ball joints to wear faster and makes the steering heavier).

Thanks again, @124BC1 , for all the details - yes, I’ve re-read your replies and have tried a few things including my neighbor’s bench press. His press is not set up to accommodate the shape / size of the arm, plus I don’t have any cutout adapters to go around the swivel arm.

I have burned off the rubber a bit (outside of course) and have done the heat / penetrating oil a few times. I think my next move will be to carefully apply some cutting tool(s) per your guidance to see what I can do. I realize though that I will need to use the borrowed bushing press I have with a socket to press the new bushings on. I’m going to laugh and say “oh that will be a piece of cake”!

Btw the borrowed press I have has no adapters either to allow for a central pin / swivel arm - it’s just a heavy duty c-clamp with circular ends that hold discs to provide force.

 

[smahaley]

Just a pictorial update: POR 15 on upper arms; cut rubber away and sprayed penetrating oil on lower arms. Will see what I can get up to tomorrow …

 

[124BC1]

----------------- I am scratching my noggin over how to get the lowers out (even with YouTube and manuals - lots of rust - have been heating and tapping and spraying…).

YouTube?
Manuals, I have a lot of time for manuals.

 

[124BC1]

It's essential that the old bush exteriors are cleaned down to clean metal in the area outlined in green and then applying some heat to the area outlined in red in order to give you the best chance of removing the bushes. (I've never had to resort to using heat...)

 

[124BC1]

Reading your post about the lack of a suitable press etc. but considering the bush removal tools I posted earlier, I did a little thinking (not too much though, I don't want to risk brain-strain) and did the following sketches.

The top one shows how you might be able to fabricate a reasonable facsimile of the posted special tool, all you need to do is weld a nut to a bolt - I seem to recall you said way back that your neighbour had gifted you a MIG welder, now's a chance to use it. (a 'stick' welder would be even better). The nut chosen has to be 14 x 1.5mm to match the thread on the pivot pin, the draw bolt and nut can be whatever you might have - I'd suggest approx. 1/2" diameter with a fine pitch thread and approx. 2 - 3" long should suffice. The tube could be a short offcut of metal pipe that just clears the bush outer flange, you could also use a socket of a suitable size (once it clears the bush outer and fits over the draw bolt you've chosen to use).

The bottom sketch shows a way of driving out the 1st bush that hopefully won't cause any damage. Essentially it's the brute force equivalent of using a press as shown in various 'shop manuals. But, it's essential that the bush outer is thoroughly cleaned first...

P.S. Before fitting new bushes clean any POR 15 from the holes where the bushes are to be installed - and remember, don't press the top bushes in too far, they're only designed to be pressed in so that the little bumps on the bush outer just touch the wishbone.

 

[smahaley]

Reading your post about the lack of a suitable press etc. but considering the bush removal tools I posted earlier, I did a little thinking (not too much though, I don't want to risk brain-strain) and did the following sketches.

The top one shows how you might be able to fabricate a reasonable facsimile of the posted special tool, all you need to do is weld a nut to a bolt - I seem to recall you said way back that your neighbour had gifted you a MIG welder, now's a chance to use it. (a 'stick' welder would be even better). The nut chosen has to be 14 x 1.5mm to match the thread on the pivot pin, the draw bolt and nut can be whatever you might have - I'd suggest approx. 1/2" diameter with a fine pitch thread and approx. 2 - 3" long should suffice. The tube could be a short offcut of metal pipe that just clears the bush outer flange, you could also use a socket of a suitable size (once it clears the bush outer and fits over the draw bolt you've chosen to use).

The bottom sketch shows a way of driving out the 1st bush that hopefully won't cause any damage. Essentially it's the brute force equivalent of using a press as shown in various 'shop manuals. But, it's essential that the bush outer is thoroughly cleaned first...

View attachment 482692



P.S. Before fitting new bushes clean any POR 15 from the holes where the bushes are to be installed - and remember, don't press the top bushes in too far, they're only designed to be pressed in so that the little bumps on the bush outer just touch the wishbone.

I’m printing, framing and hanging the sketch on the wall of my dusty work shed. Have you considered making a “greatest hits” set of sketches?

Can’t thank you enough for this : I, too, have been thinking about a way to pull rather than push, and was even hunting around my shop for a suitable piece of pipe that I could cut to match the special service tool indicated.

I’m going to chase this idea.

 

[smahaley]

Pictorial update:

New bushings and ball joints for upper arms.

Finally.

Onto the lowers - more cleaning and oiling + fabricating an extraction tool. On a (un)related note, I’m considering assembling a home dentistry kit because, why not?

 

[bugsymike]

Onto the lowers - more cleaning and oiling + fabricating an extraction tool. On a (un)related note, I’m considering assembling a home dentistry kit because, why not?

Given the shortage of UK dentists you could be on to a winner.

 

[smahaley]

Given the shortage of UK dentists you could be on to a winner.

Perhaps I should mention that I will put my feet back on UK soil in September for a week. Seeing old friends in London and trucking around a bit - maybe York…

 

[124BC1]

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On a (un)related note, I’m considering assembling a home dentistry kit because, why not?

I've already started :-



I've also got a Dremel type tool (Lidl discount store knock-off) which spins at up to 25,000 rpm (i.e. it's the turbocharged version), and a selection of diamond rotary burrs to suit (although, given what I paid for the set, they might not be real diamond...), all I need now is a suitably small right angle drive to fit the Dremel and I'll be in business...

 

[bugsymike]

I've already started :-

View attachment 482788View attachment 482789

I've also got a Dremel type tool (Lidl discount store knock-off) which spins at up to 25,000 rpm (i.e. it's the turbocharged version), and a selection of diamond rotary burrs to suit (although, given what I paid for the set, they might not be real diamond...), all I need now is a suitably small right angle drive to fit the Dremel and I'll be in business...

Rather than dentistry, I thought about gynecology, not for the obvious reasons.More for working on modern cars.

 

[Mike1alike]

Rather than dentistry, I thought about gynecology, not for the obvious reasons.More for working on modern cars.

You're not the only one, apparently...

Translation
Sign: GYNECOLOGY
DENTISTRY
Text: I think it depends on how you sit on the chair...

 

[smahaley]

So….
I *finally* managed to get one of the bushes out, and removed the pivot bar. And that’s when I found out that it looks like one end’s threads are gone and the other end has the inner race of the bushing welded? maybe, to the inner washer and to the pivot bar itself.

You can see the remnants of the bushing casing above, along with parts of a tool I attempted to build (lol).

Anyway. I got that far and decided to walk away and think about death and dismemberment to cheer myself up.

 

[Mike1alike]

Anyway. I got that far and decided to walk away and think about death and dismemberment to cheer myself up.

That is not good, my friend! Not good at all!
Just let life be...

 

[bugsymike]

That is not good, my friend! Not good at all!
Just let life be...

I just think about the monkeys that did that work on yours and probably many other vehicles on the road ! They want their a*ses kicking.

 

[smahaley]

Update: second pivot bar removed. I found that following @124BC1 ‘s advice in applying heat to the inner collar for the bushings was best for boiling / burning out the rubber, which then created some slack that gave room for more percussive (hammerimg) action.
As with the first bar, the second also has one bushing race that seems to be stuck to the inner washer and to the bar itself. I’m letting it soak with some penetrating oil and then will go back to it. Meanwhile I’ve posed the new bushings next to the pivot bars to a) make sure that indeed all the races should come out (all 4 new bushings are identical and include the inner race) and b) to psychologically persuade the pivot bars to let go of the past and accept their new bushing partners.

 

[124BC1]

So….
I *finally* managed to get one of the bushes out,

Anyway. I got that far and decided to walk away and think about death and dismemberment to cheer myself up.

Well! You certainly killed and dismembered that bush

 

[124BC1]

View attachment 483155
Update: second pivot bar removed. I found that following @124BC1 ‘s advice in applying heat to the inner collar for the bushings was best for boiling / burning out the rubber, which then created some slack that gave room for more percussive (hammerimg) action.
As with the first bar, the second also has one bushing race that seems to be stuck to the inner washer and to the bar itself. I’m letting it soak with some penetrating oil and then will go back to it. Meanwhile I’ve posed the new bushings next to the pivot bars to a) make sure that indeed all the races should come out (all 4 new bushings are identical and include the inner race) and b) to psychologically persuade the pivot bars to let go of the past and accept their new bushing partners.

To remove the bushing 'race' that's stuck, you might try supporting one side of the 'race' on a metal block (or sledge/heavy hammer) and hitting the opposite side of the 'race with a hammer, then turn the race slightly and repeat - this will tend to spread the race and loosen any rust bond - hopefully the 'genius with a stick welder' hasn't been up to his 'usual antic's here also. Hint, you might fit a nut to the thread end of the pin to avoid any damage should the hammer 'slip'. Or first reduce the thickness of the wall of the race by carefully grinding, then hammer to expand it and hopefully allow its removal.

As regards what to do about the damaged threads on the pivot pin ends (one is worse than the other)?
The lower one (less damaged thread) will probably clean up if you have a suitable die nut or a thread file (could also use a needle or knife/wedge file).

The upper pivot pin has quite badly damaged threads - if it was me, I might attempt a repair by welding and re-cutting the thread but you might have to enrichen Autoricambi ((further) and spurge i.e. (I'd just use any suitably sized washer, wouldn't see me paying $3+ for a shiny one that no one will see). I did notice that the replacement pivot pin has a different shape/cross-section so I'm not sure if the pin ends will be the same distance from the crossmember as the original pivot pin i.e. could require different camber/castor shims than your original (but this is not insurmountable).


But you might first try - fitting the washer/spacer on the pivot pin followed by a new bush and the outer washer and see how many good threads are still visible, then decide if the pivot pin is re-useable or needs to be replaced.

P.S. After I had supplied that super-duper sketch on how to possibly fabricate a homemade tool to remove the bushes (and got you 'all-fired-up'), afterwards I thought about the chamfer on the end of the pivot pin and how many threads a regular nut might engage with, I thought of suggesting you either grind off the chamfer or weld 2 regular nuts together then weld this double depth nut onto the draw bolt - I even checked in a local hardware store if 'nut-joiners' were available in the correct thread but no luck, 14mm size only came in a coarse thread. (over here, that is, we don't have anything like McMaster-Carr..) But I had no access to the i/net for a couple of days so didn't get to make this further suggestion.