Not on a carbed Panda, only the injected Panda's have a pump in the tank.
General Running Problem
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General Running Problem
Not on a carbed Panda, only the injected Panda's have a pump in the tank.
There you go...a man that knows..Cheers Panda sport...kev
Some panda's have a fuel filter screwed into the carb itself, It's a large brass coloured bolt next to the inline pipe.
The mechanical fuel pumps almost never break they are so reliable. Just wondering if the inlet pipe has a non return valve if not I wonder if you could pressure blast it incase the pipe from the tank is clogged with crap?
The mechanical fuel pumps almost never break they are so reliable. Just wondering if the inlet pipe has a non return valve if not I wonder if you could pressure blast it incase the pipe from the tank is clogged with crap?
Fuel filter in carb..:yeahthat: Just been looking at that in the manual......SPOOKEY!!!!!! 
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:yeahthat: Your thinking of the fuel sender in the Carbed Panda's Kev.
In the Carbed Panda's it's a mechanical pump on the engine, which tend to be really reliable (so I've found) and a good simple set-up
OP
OP
Well I compared the peformance of the pumps in my 2 Pandas today. From cold, I took the fuel inlet from the carb and turned the key. Didn't pump a thing. Compared with my project car which filled an old margarine tub in no time.
There's not much it can be, fuel pump, fuel line, or sender in fuel tank as I see it.
It would be good to know if the fuel sender in the fuel tank has a one way valve. If it does and it's broken that would add up.
There's not much it can be, fuel pump, fuel line, or sender in fuel tank as I see it.
It would be good to know if the fuel sender in the fuel tank has a one way valve. If it does and it's broken that would add up.
Hey....Good news in a way,,,,Your def getting there...
kev
kev
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OP
Well the good news I think I have found the problem, bad news is it could hardly be much worse! The fuel pumps do work, I tested them on my project car and they pump merrily. So why work on one car and not on the problem Panda? Well I discovered the fuel pump rod was a bit stiff to pull out. So I hauled it with a pair of pliers and got it out. But was concerned to see the end was worn.
So I whisked off the cam cover.
And peered at the fuel pump rod cam on the cam shaft and saw this...
Arse. :bang: Completely and utterly worn. The rod you see in that picture is the one off my spare engine. The rod that was in the engine is worn to the same profile i'm holding it in the pic below.
So the fuel pump doesn't pump because the fuel pump cam has been worn into a circle shape. I measured the bit the rods touching and about 1.5mm has been ground off. I do have a spare cam shaft in the spare engine but maybe it would be better to fit an electric pump and blank the plate off?
Anyone else ever had this problem before? Or am I special?!
So I whisked off the cam cover.
And peered at the fuel pump rod cam on the cam shaft and saw this...
Arse. :bang: Completely and utterly worn. The rod you see in that picture is the one off my spare engine. The rod that was in the engine is worn to the same profile i'm holding it in the pic below.
So the fuel pump doesn't pump because the fuel pump cam has been worn into a circle shape. I measured the bit the rods touching and about 1.5mm has been ground off. I do have a spare cam shaft in the spare engine but maybe it would be better to fit an electric pump and blank the plate off?
Anyone else ever had this problem before? Or am I special?!
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It is good news...as you say in a way.......Mostly well discovered...It would seem no one saw that problem coming!!!!!!
kev
kev
OP
OP
Thanks for your encouragement!! It's certainly a new problem for me, and not one i've heard of before. Fingers crossed it's what's causing the grief, if it's not i'll be completely stuck! But i'm not counting my chickens yet.
Anyway, this evening I took the camshaft out the spare engine and it's ready to go in tomorrow. Fingers crossed...
I know I've seen a guide somewhere about this problem I think, or was it about fitting a mechanical pump to an injection engine
It was something to do with a mechanical pump and a FIRE engine somewhere on the forum though, so might be worth a bit of a hunt
Jon.
It was something to do with a mechanical pump and a FIRE engine somewhere on the forum though, so might be worth a bit of a hunt
Jon.
OP
OP
Think I found the one you meant, in the Panda guide section.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-guides/113472-fitting-old-carburettor-fuel-pump-punto-engine.html
It's about fitting a mechanical pump to a ingection engine, interesting(/brave!) but I needed a guide the other way round, an electric pump replacement for mechanical pump!
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-guides/113472-fitting-old-carburettor-fuel-pump-punto-engine.html
It's about fitting a mechanical pump to a ingection engine, interesting(/brave!) but I needed a guide the other way round, an electric pump replacement for mechanical pump!
Yep, that was the one. Ashame it's of no use, like you say.
Won't a electronic fuel pump (in tank) from an injection Panda, work in the same way in the tank of a carbed Panda? Obviously you'd need to get power to it, but that shouldn't be to hard surly
Won't a electronic fuel pump (in tank) from an injection Panda, work in the same way in the tank of a carbed Panda? Obviously you'd need to get power to it, but that shouldn't be to hard surly
Jim has put an electric pump on his carbed panda but had lots of trouble setting it up correctly (there are a few posts on it) For the end to wear like that either the pump started to sieze causing the problem of increased pressure OR the oil spray bar is blocked at that end so not enough oil is lubricating the cam.
Personally I would change the cam and check/change the spray bar as it will be problematic with the electric pump. You can only use a 4x4 cam as they are different to the 2wd and slightly increase the overall BHP.
Glad you found the problem but I wouldn't overly worry as replacement is a very easy affair. Finding a spare o complete your spare engine will be the hardest part.
Personally I would change the cam and check/change the spray bar as it will be problematic with the electric pump. You can only use a 4x4 cam as they are different to the 2wd and slightly increase the overall BHP.
Glad you found the problem but I wouldn't overly worry as replacement is a very easy affair. Finding a spare o complete your spare engine will be the hardest part.
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OP
OP
At last!!! It's fixed!!! I hope, I won't get too excited until she's had a few days under her belt.
So today I replaced the camshaft and fuel pump rod, put it all together, checked it was pumping fuel and went for a drive. It started better and ran better though the idle was still a bit wobbly, I got home and set about tunng the carb and that seemed to cure the hunting revs.
Finger's crossed team but I think she's fixed!! Thanks for all you help, advice and support along the way.
I'm a bit concerned the new cam will wear in the same way, there was no indication the first one was failing. That said, the replacement pump rod seemed nice and free moving, i'm using a different fuel pump, and there was lots of oil around the fuel cam, so it should be ok.
As for the old camshaft, and spare engine, I was going to just use an electric pump if I ever needed it, but judging by what you say about Jim's experience Alan, I might try to fix the old camshaft. I have a mate who's Dad has a good lathe, I'll see if he can machine a it down. The off-centre circle will be smaller but I could compensate with a thinner spacer gasket on the fuel pump.
Thanks for your help once more everyone, epic problem thread signing out!
So today I replaced the camshaft and fuel pump rod, put it all together, checked it was pumping fuel and went for a drive. It started better and ran better though the idle was still a bit wobbly, I got home and set about tunng the carb and that seemed to cure the hunting revs.
Finger's crossed team but I think she's fixed!! Thanks for all you help, advice and support along the way.
I'm a bit concerned the new cam will wear in the same way, there was no indication the first one was failing. That said, the replacement pump rod seemed nice and free moving, i'm using a different fuel pump, and there was lots of oil around the fuel cam, so it should be ok.
As for the old camshaft, and spare engine, I was going to just use an electric pump if I ever needed it, but judging by what you say about Jim's experience Alan, I might try to fix the old camshaft. I have a mate who's Dad has a good lathe, I'll see if he can machine a it down. The off-centre circle will be smaller but I could compensate with a thinner spacer gasket on the fuel pump.
Thanks for your help once more everyone, epic problem thread signing out!
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I'll be a pain in the neck to keep checking it but for the next little while I would or check the spray bar on your spare engine and if OK replace so you don't have to keep buying rockercover gaskets knowing that all is ok. When you remove the spray bar from the current usable engine check that and if OK throw away the mechanical fuel pump that was causing the problem. You can pick up a brand new one for a couple of quid on ebay sonot worth messing with.
OP
OP
I have a new pump coming from Ebay that I ordered a couple of days ago before discovering the actual problem. I might fit it to be on the safe side. How do you check spray bar, is there a good method? I'll need to take the cam cover back off anyway at somepoint because I didn't fit a new gasket so i'm expecting it to leak.
Attach an air hose if possible and make sure that none of the holes along the bar are blocked you should feel the air pressure out of each hole the same.
Oh! make sure that you use a little thread locking compound on the bolts when replacing so vibration doesn't work them loose.
Oh! make sure that you use a little thread locking compound on the bolts when replacing so vibration doesn't work them loose.
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