How could Tony Blair say that Sadam....
The answer is the same: Words can bear a multitude of lies.
Technical Rolling Road
- Thread starter Squirrel
- Start date
-
- Tags
- rr remapped 19
Currently reading:
Technical Rolling Road
How could Tony Blair say that Sadam....
The answer is the same: Words can bear a multitude of lies.
sorry for the late reply, right as most of you have probably guessed it was angel tuning that mapped my car. it defiantly feels quicker and is slightly more economical but it just wasnt what i was expecting from what they had advertised. I'm going to book it in with red dot and have a see what they can do with it
Well glad everybody has managed to jump to a conclusion.
Despite the fact everyone knows RRs are never completely accurate and they almost always come up with different results to one another. A soon as someone has a GP tuned by someone other than GSR and Red Dot the knifes are out.
Didn't Angel tuning buy their maps from Red Dot in the first place?
Despite the fact everyone knows RRs are never completely accurate and they almost always come up with different results to one another. A soon as someone has a GP tuned by someone other than GSR and Red Dot the knifes are out.
Didn't Angel tuning buy their maps from Red Dot in the first place?
True yes, However, seeing as most of us have had our tuning done by Red Dot the Rolling Road details are accurate as far as comparisons between each other. And also, although a rolling road isn't totally accurate it's more accurate than a man with a van telling you that you've just got an extra 60 brake and then taking the money and running!
If Angel did buy their maps of Red Dot then i'm sorry but Red Dot are hardly going to give them the best maps are they? Because that would be putting themselves out of business to a point!
The knives are out but its for a reason. Most people who have had their cars tuned by Angel are quoted ridiculous figures that are nowhere near fact. 2 of my friends have used them and both are about 8hp off the mark...and when they're only quoted 12 or 15 from a remap that's alot off the mark!!
If angel were realistic and said well you could get this.... but you'll probably only get.... then that'd be fine...but they don't so that's the problem i guess.
Well in that case are we not glad the op had his car RR before the map?
Oh wait he didn't so we have no comparison do we?
So you believe that Red Dot purposely sold duff maps?
Most people? If you could provide evidence for this I would be happy to read it and then comment.
If angel were realistic and said well you could get this.... but you'll probably only get.... then that'd be fine...but they don't so that's the problem i guess.
Strange. When I had my map done by Angel I was told I could be looking to get upto 10bhp but the maps work differently on different engines. However flat spots are gone and the driveability of the engine are much improved.
So what is the issue there?
Note that before the OP even confirmed that his car had been mapped by Angel he was already getting stick for not using Red Dot and GSR. Hell the first post in response to this thread was an advertisement for Red Dot tuning day. FFS
Edit: I am not saying wether the map on the op cars is good or bad and I certainly wouldn't try and say that one companys maps are the best and you cannot find anyone better.
Last edited:
But the conclusion everone jumped to was correct.
Correct, RRs are never completely accurate, but funny how angel maps have been seen to generally get less at more than one rolling road.
The fact that red dot live map and angel tuning don't shows that even if the software sold to angel is the same, every re dot map is different and tweaked to the car in question.
So the RR has been verified somewhere else now?
I've still to see the proof of this. alot of talk but little proof. Not syaing it's not true but I need evidence not hear say before I'll belive it. For all we know this car on a different road might make 190bhp then where do we stand.
I won't argue with that but then Fiat don't live map every car before they leave the factory so how much of a difference does this make?
If you need proof then come down to the next rolling road day at Red Dot. You say your car has been mapped by Angel? Then get it on the rolling road and see how you feel with your results?
We don't slate angel for the sake of it. But the fact is Red Dot do provide an exceptional service at not only a reduced cost but with proof of the increase. Even if the rolling road is not accurate from one to the next if you have it RR'd before and then after the power increase is accurate 'cos you are using the same RR.
I will be bringing my mate with his C2 to the next RR day and he has an Angel map. This should provide some evidence aswell.
If your/anyone else's Angel map is perfect and you get exactly what is quoted then I will take back everything I said.
Also, on the subject of selling duff maps...If you look at formula one...Ferrari provide the engines to several teams. But they obviously give them the previous years engine not the newest and best engine...Its the same thing with remaps...why would you sell your best stuff to the competition? And if Angel were any good then they would produce their own
buy a faster/more powerful car
buy a faster/more powerful car
Or a bigger engine =]]
1000 mile round trip? nah
Only problem there is Angel also provide excellent service. With a reduced cost and as good a comeback if your not happy as anyone else. As for proof of increase there is no doubt the only proof you have with Angel is how the car drives before and after and on that point I can't fault the results I had.
If your/anyone else's Angel map is perfect and you get exactly what is quoted then I will take back everything I said.
Also, on the subject of selling duff maps...If you look at formula one...Ferrari provide the engines to several teams. But they obviously give them the previous years engine not the newest and best engine...Its the same thing with remaps...why would you sell your best stuff to the competition? And if Angel were any good then they would produce their own
Ah verify companies claim using test data from a rival?
Now don't take that the wrong way I am in noway whatsoever trying to discredit Red Dot but it is hardly a fair way to do it. Also owning a rolling road is not a complete requirement to developing mapping. Maps can be tweeked while on tarmac with test cars and the right equipment. Ofcourse you will not have the same type of data but you can still do it.
Then incases where a generic map is appropriate. Like a car where lots of people are having maps with say a normal type induction kit and a catback exhaust for example. Generic maps have a place.
However in a case where there are experimental or more extreme less common mods such as changing injectors or cams or larger turbos a custom map with a rolling road setup will always be the obvious choice.
Again I will not question the massive advantage having a rolling road is as a development tool. But people have been tuning cars since they were first made.
I'm not here to smear any of the tuning companies mentioned in this thread. Yes a custom rolling road tweeked map, tweeked to match on any car in any spec of mod will have the edge over a standard map. But to discredit any map which is not custom to the specific individual engine is silly. Every single car made is fitted with a generic map.
Remember these arguments are happening over the mapping of factory standard low performance engines. Not race designed high performance engines. Where the level of perfection required means the difference between 1.5bhp and meltdown.
if he take to red dot it will get rr'ed before any thing else so that will be 2
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,219
- Points
- 3,671
:sucks:
Thats is very true. But I am naturally very cynical of results from a company who would like to see low results. I'm not insinuating they would do anything to skew the results. but it would always be something that I considered a potential variable. Has the RR already used potentialy had any reason to skew the results maybe they offer mapping themselves? Does his car maybe have a small issue choking performance? Is the original map really that poor? Just a selection of things that could have caused the result seen.
But as people figured out the map was not Red Dot they had the knifes out immediately.
mine had low reading on a companys rr that didnt do the map, so the company that did the map rr'ed it them selves and it was even less
At the end of the day this argument can go on forever with no result...To be fair, aslong as someone is happy with how they have spent THEIR money on THEIR car then its fine!!
Yes some companies are better than others and yes some have proof and others don't but if you're not bothered then its cool!
The only reason we started slating so much really is that the starting post states that after remap its putting out what the standard car should...that's all!!
Yes some companies are better than others and yes some have proof and others don't but if you're not bothered then its cool!
The only reason we started slating so much really is that the starting post states that after remap its putting out what the standard car should...that's all!!
The only reason we started slating so much really is that the starting post states that after remap its putting out what the standard car should...that's all!!
same result i got too, then less than standard after it was tried to be fixed
The only reason we started slating so much really is that the starting post states that after remap its putting out what the standard car should...that's all!!
It's putting out 25bhp over standard according to that RR.
I'm not slating anybody, I never say anything without proof and I state facts.
I have seen angel tuned cars on the rollers with my eyes many a time and they are always a lower output than quoted. Some even lower than standard... I have seen exactly the same car on the same day put out better figures with another companies map. I know for a fact many members on this forum have seen this many times on seperate occasions just like me.
The fiat generic map gives a power output that can have 10-20bhp difference in standard quoted figures.
I have seen angel tuned cars on the rollers with my eyes many a time and they are always a lower output than quoted. Some even lower than standard... I have seen exactly the same car on the same day put out better figures with another companies map. I know for a fact many members on this forum have seen this many times on seperate occasions just like me.
The fiat generic map gives a power output that can have 10-20bhp difference in standard quoted figures.
One of my competitors is Novitech. I have great respect for the products of this company. Although I have seen two specific products I do not understand the idea behind and in my opinion could have been made better. Bu everyone does sometimes get things not as good as they could be.
Another competitor is Merkur. They have excellent products. I haven't got problems with them either.
Both companies are respected by me because they do not overstate figures.
Another complany that has been slated here was Avanti tuning. I know about them and know them for a long time. I have no problem defending them as I know what they are about and did so.
AT has quoted figures they were not ab le to meet. Why do they do this? On top of it they tried to discredit anything they could in connection with Red Dot and GSR. Why?
Neither Red Dot nor myself try to make claims that are unjustified. Sometimes people as why the performance increases are so low? Because we are not interested in Max Power.
If AT and whatever else they are trying to sell would not make out that they do know more and make more research than thay do then we all here on this forum who had seen what they do would have some respect for their business practises. Up to the time where the are pretending to be more than in reality the crap they are telling I will not recommend their services. Maybe something to think for them.
Another competitor is Merkur. They have excellent products. I haven't got problems with them either.
Both companies are respected by me because they do not overstate figures.
Another complany that has been slated here was Avanti tuning. I know about them and know them for a long time. I have no problem defending them as I know what they are about and did so.
AT has quoted figures they were not ab le to meet. Why do they do this? On top of it they tried to discredit anything they could in connection with Red Dot and GSR. Why?
Neither Red Dot nor myself try to make claims that are unjustified. Sometimes people as why the performance increases are so low? Because we are not interested in Max Power.
If AT and whatever else they are trying to sell would not make out that they do know more and make more research than thay do then we all here on this forum who had seen what they do would have some respect for their business practises. Up to the time where the are pretending to be more than in reality the crap they are telling I will not recommend their services. Maybe something to think for them.
Last edited:
