General Remember the Road Rat?

Currently reading:
General Remember the Road Rat?

Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
1,105
Points
225
Location
Bedwellty, South Wales.
Hi people. Been a long time since I posted here. Some of you may remember that I was rebuilding an NCF Road Rat. Unfortunately it has been languishing in my garage for several years now and I just haven't had the time, or indeed interest, to finish it off. I'm now in a position where it simply MUST be sold as I'm moving to Shetland next month, where I plan to stay permanently. Hence, all my toys have had to go and the Road Rat is the last of them.

So it's now for sale in the classifieds section of the site.
 
Hi people. Been a long time since I posted here. Some of you may remember that I was rebuilding an NCF Road Rat. Unfortunately it has been languishing in my garage for several years now and I just haven't had the time, or indeed interest, to finish it off. I'm now in a position where it simply MUST be sold as I'm moving to Shetland next month, where I plan to stay permanently. Hence, all my toys have had to go and the Road Rat is the last of them.

So it's now for sale in the classifieds section of the site.

I remember it. Always wondered what happened to it. Good luck finding a buyer (y)
 
Rick, thank you for your last message via eBay, I hope you don't mind me moving our discussion to an open forum, but I'm hoping that some of the other guys on here will be able to clear up any concerns I have!

As you said, you have a current (red) logbook, which is good, but what concerns me is that there is no mention at all on the logbook of the kit makers name or model assigned to it, or even any mention that it is a kit car.
I would expect there to be at least something in the notes section on the cover of the logbook, saying that it was registered as a kit car or modified on ... date.

You said the logbook states the model as a 'Panda 4x4 Pickup'. To the best of my knowledge Fiat never produced a pickup under the Panda model (that would be the Fiorino). So, I 'assume' that when the Panda was rebuilt as a kit car, rather than register it as such, they just informed the DVLA that it had been altered to a pickup.

Converting/altering a car to a pickup would not be the same as completely stripping a donor car down, and using the parts to build up a kit car.

So, based purely on the information that you've given, it does look as if the kit car has NOT been registered as a kit car, as there is no evidence in the paperwork to that effect.

That would mean that to register it now, it would need the SVA or whatever test.

As far as the numberplates go, I don't know the full in's and out's of this particular kit, but even if it did retain enough points to get by without a Q plate when you bought it, it won't any more, as you changed the engine (and I assume the gearbox as well).

So, the only parts left that would count as original (if they are original) would be the 'axles' and the suspension.
Chassis/body, and engine carry the most points, and both are gone!

In addition, you've not even declared the new engine number yet. What happens if the DVLA want an inspection? They are going to turn up and say that the vehicle doesn't match the paperwork, and refuse the change. So that's massive issues even before you've got to the SVA stage!

When I saw the car come up on eBay, I started frantically searching the net for any info I could find, as this car ticks almost all the boxes for me.
I came across you're posts on here, and have read through pretty much every one of your past posts relating to this vehicle. I am genuinely interested in buying, but from what you've said so far I can't see a way of getting this back on the road legally. Is that why you haven't managed it in all the years of ownership?
 
Hi Ed. The Road Rat is fitted with the original VIN plate from the original donor Panda. I had to move it to a new location because of the mods required to make the later FIRE engine fit.

This is NOT a Panda which has been modified to be a pick-up. The Road Rat was a space frame chassis built by NCF Motors to accept Fiat Panda components.

The car is registered. It doesn't need to be registered again just because some components have been changed. I would put good money on quite a lot of classic cars out there not consisting of all the parts they left the factory with, especially modified ones.

The only item not matching the paperwork is the engine, which as I have said is simply because it's one of those things I just haven't got around to doing. I had previously submitted the log book for a colour change which was done with no problem. I'd be happy to submit it again for the new engine number but I do not have the time now. I've got less than three weeks now before I move to Shetland and DVLA typically move quite slowly so I wouldn't be confident about getting it back before I move, never mind before the auction ends.

If you've read all my posts regarding the build you'll see that they span a considerable amount of time. I've lost interest at times, I've procrastinated, I've moved on to other stuff and left this alone before regaining some interest again, you name it. I've suffered all the highs and lows of car building and that's why it's taken me so long to get where I am now. So the only reason I've not been able to get it on the road is because I just haven't finished it.

However, this is your money we're talking about and no amount of me telling you this and that about the build is going to make you buy it unless you can somehow be guaranteed that there will be no problems with the legal side of things. If I had all the doubts you have voiced I wouldn't buy it, simple as that.
 
As the Road Rat was built before the SVA test was introduced then as far as I would be concerned it is registered correctly and how it is described on the V5 using the original chassis number with an altered body style was standard practice pre SVA test. I have just found a thread on Pistonheads asking a similar question about a Beauford kit based on a Cortina:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1384057&mid=0&nmt=Query+on+registration+details+with+DVLA+for+old+kit+car

Of course you may have trouble proving when it was built if the DVLA were to become interested in it, but I don't think that will be a problem here since the car has history with it.
 
I'm happy to accept that it was built before the SVA, on the balance of probability. Although I'm not sure that it could be proved if need be.

Has the DVLA seen/inspected the vehicle in any way since it was converted? Do you have any paperwork at all to prove that?

You say that the only thing that doesn't match paperwork wise is the new engine number.
But, you said it is registered as a Panda Pickup, but you say it is not a Panda Pickup! So that doesn't match either.
 
I looked at a few forum posts on similar subjects, and they all seem to back up my concern.


If I was stopped by VOSA/DVLA, what would happen?
The logbook and the car don't seem to match. What could I produce to show its all legal?

Also, is there not a kit VIN plate too? Anything that states the kit serial number, and the vehicle weights (as I assume they would have changed)?
 
I'm happy to accept that it was built before the SVA, on the balance of probability. Although I'm not sure that it could be proved if need be.

Has the DVLA seen/inspected the vehicle in any way since it was converted? Do you have any paperwork at all to prove that?

You say that the only thing that doesn't match paperwork wise is the new engine number.
But, you said it is registered as a Panda Pickup, but you say it is not a Panda Pickup! So that doesn't match either.

It's a silver Panda 4x4 Madagascar with body style "pickup" according to the DVLA. Hope that helps. I would assume the bodywork changes were notified to the DVLA and pickup is the nearest body style they had - if nothing had been notified it would still show hatch. (y)

Bit of an :eek: moment as it would be a seriously rare car if it was still a Madagascar!
 
I agree that the DVLA were notified of some changes at the time. But, with nothing on paper to show that it was re-registered as a kit car, how can it be legal?

You could write to the DVLA saying they've wrongly recorded it as a pickup and not a kit car pickup, but I can't see them just changing it. At the least they'd want to see receipts for the kit to prove a time frame.
 
Ed, seriously, don't bid on it. It's obvious that your heart wants it but your head does not. I'm not a salesman with a hidden agenda and I can't tell you anything about what the original builder or DVLA did when registering it. I'm just offering it for sale as it currently stands because I'm out of options.
 
Back
Top