Technical RECALL: Service Solution for Suspension Springs

[leelee01]

So what is it then that they are charging some and not other's

Don't seem fair to me!

As there is a problem with the springs and fiat won't put there hands up to say that there is!

 

[topmark5]

Bombay...topmark5 asked what my opinion was,I replied (to him)

"Yes I do have my own theory...and it will stay that way as its 'my' theory.Also I am sick to the back teeth with being mis-quoted & accused of 'knowing something' that I should reveal to all here so I will keep my own opinions from now on to myself"

That as far as i'm concerned is the end of it,I will not guess/speculate it has nothing to do with not giving out information,if you read a earlier post of mine I said if I knew something I would say so!)


You then said "However, I say it as I see it and if someone is not prepared to give their opinion, theory, or comments about what is happening to them, which could help someone else on the forum, why bother to post anything"

Fine thats your opinion but at the time I was talking with topmark5.I 'bothered' to answer him because he asked a question & I gave him my honest answer to his question,it would of been rude to ignore him or give false information.


Moving on......."I also detect a little band of dealers on this forum who don’t seem to have their own opinion or are not happy to share their own experiences to help others and just keep quoting only what Fiat have told them"

Again as I said Fiat haven't said anything to dealers apart from whats on the recall sheet,so what are you wanting any of the 'small band of dealers' to say? Its almost as if your trying to catch them out or force them to say something that isn't true for some reason.I can assure you many dealers are just as concerned about this as anyone else here.

When you,I or anyone else here knows something then great we can let everyone else know but until then its all speculation & were just going around in circles casting the finger at people which is unfair and pointless.

Being extremely polite, not wanting any warnings for being abusive, could i possibly just ask you :

1. If you have a theory regarding the weak springs what are you doing about it to make the stilo a safe car to drive, have you reported your thoughts to any relevant engineering body?

2. I am trying the Vosa route & others are trying independant investigations etc - if this is not too your liking then what route do you reccommend?

3.I am personally accusing you of knowing something that you are not
revealing here - your theory!! this must be of value to all if you are experienced in motorvehicle engineering.

4. What do you honestly belive i should do now then, surely not "put up and shut up" when a real safety isssue is so obvious.

Again, i am just after your experienced thoughts and have no whish to upset you or any other

Regards Mark

 

[Stu DemonD]

3.I am personally accusing you of knowing something that you are not
revealing here - your theory!! this must be of value to all if you are experienced in motorvehicle engineering.

Hold on a minute, Mark - why should T14086 post his theory on here? If he wants to make his theory public, then so be it - but that his choice, so don't DEMAND it...

...what right do you have to accuse him of knowing something that YOU do not know?

I have a 'theory' about this whole thread anyway

Any more posts of this ilk, and the thread will be locked, simple as that

 

[dan-the-man]

well my opinion is that at least FIAT have done something about this, alright it might not solve the problem completley but at least they did something, better than doing nothing at all isn't it?

if my spring snapped tomorrow (hope I'm not tempting fate here) then I wouldn't want to take FIAT to court or go to the dealer and blame them. things break and like many people have said before, it's not just the stilo that it happens to and i bet some of the other makes haven't issued a recall, have they?

I think this thread should be locked anyway, there's loads of information on this thread for people who are browsing and before it gets too out of hand but thats for the mods to decide.

 

[topmark5]

Any more posts of this ilk, and the thread will be locked, simple as that

OK OK, I will calm it here as I am sure this information helps the mechanically minded, however I stand firm that the efforts made by Fiat are seriously inadequate!

Lets see what developes from other ongoing investigations

Kind regards and safe motoring

Mark V

 

[leelee01]

After my complaint to fiat, They have agreed to replace the springs FOC and anyother work that needs to be done as the result of the spring snapping

 

[dan-the-man]

Just had a thought about this spring snapping thing.

Could the creaking noise that alot of Stilos get from the spring cup be contributing to putting excessive strain on the springs?

 

[french bean]

Whilst there is a definate problem with the coils springs on Stilos, there are a couple of factors that nobody has mentioned:

1. Quality of roads in the UK. As pointed out by Colin 07, he did 4 vehicles that were not Fiat and they were all nearside. That means wheels running over drains, manhole covers, badly laid kerbstones etc.

2. Driving style. I cannot comment on individual styles of driving because I don't know how these vehicles are driven, but, if there are mainly used for city driving, driven agressively i.e. hard acceleration and braking and kerbed then that will affect the loading on the springs and ultimately their life.

Again, I am not being critical of individuals because I don't know how the vehicles are driven but being objective, the above points are contributing factors to the life of components.

 

[Argonought]

.....another factor that's hardly been mentioned is that breakages only ever occur at low speed (just as well many might shout )

There's got to be clue there somewhere :idea:

 

[Ralph2]

:yeahthat: What he said

 

[Ralph2]

:yeahthat: What he said

Where'd he go?

 

[Cris]

To those interested my nearside front spring snapped last night.

I have already had the recall so the spring has failed approx 2 and a half months after being recalled and I assumed inspected.

On the plus side the mechano kit has stopped it from clouting the tyre and the car is drivable. In fact the section of spring which broke is pretty short.

As my car is out of warranty I doubtful that there's any point in talking to a FIAT dealer (to be honest on recent form I doubt that'll happen).

I tried to order some Apex springs but they were on a ten day lead time so I've bitten the bullet and ordered the Eibachs. Hopefully this solve the problem and also improve the body roll in the corners.

I was a touched worried about loosing too much ride height (it scrapes given the merest opportunity as it is). Roundabout performance should make up for this though.

It's all a bit of an arse as I'm due on the MOT so I have to move swiftly to get both done.

 

[Argonought]

....I've bitten the bullet and ordered the Eibachs. Hopefully this solve the problem and also improve the body roll in the corners.

Are you going for the Pro Kit with 30mm drop all round?

I think that would be my choice

 

[Cris]

Are you going for the Pro Kit with 30mm drop all round?

I think that would be my choice

Yep that's the one.

I wanted the minimum drop and the suggestion seemed to be that the Pros worked better with stock shocks.

I don't want to change the shocks as I'm happy with the damping just the spring rates are too soft.

I drive the car every day so I don't want a rock solid ride. That's part of the reason for keeping the 16"s over 17"s.

 

[ChrisMClark]

Where'd you get them Cris?

 

[Deckchair5]

Dan the Man "Could the creaking noise that a lot of Stilos get from the spring cup be contributing to puttng excessive stran on the springs"


Argo ".....another factor that's hardly been mentioned is that breakages only ever occur at low speed (just as well many might shout ) There's got to be clue there somewhere :idea:"

I think the spring and the lower spring cup are both linked to the problem and was saying so 8 pages ago.

THINK ABOUT IT
All Stilos creak over certain kind of bumps. People say "that's just a lack of lubrication". Well, try this, when it creaks, back up then go over the bump again, it doesn't creak the 2nd time. So why is that? Can't be just a lack of lubrication can it? Something has straightened/ sorted itself out and it doesn't take too much guessing as to what. Not all cars creak and not all cars have front suspension snapping. Linked? I think so

Let's not forget that the front suspension has to turn as well as go up and down, of course. Now imagine you have a suspension spring in your hands, twist the spring up by turning the ends of the spring in the same direction as the coils and it's not much problem, now turn in the opposite direction and it doesn't like it at all as you are turning the coil back on itself


Now imagine the spring turned back on itself and it hasn't had chance to straighten back up again because it doesn't turn freely in the spring cup, now you go over a bump, spring extended outwards and compressed at the same time. It really doesn't like that!
Add some freezing temperatures as well to make the spring steel even more brittle and you get what we had 2 weeks ago, springs snapping everywhere


THINGS PEOPLE SAY
"I had just backed out of my drive and the spring snapped"
"I had just parked up and I heard a bang and the spring went"
"Thank god I was going quite slowly"

REPLACEMENT THOUGHTS
Now when a component fails after a certain length of time in service, I can't see much point in replacing it with the same component. Unless you intend replacing it AGAIN long before it's expected useful life finishes then all you have done is renewed the hand grenade.

If a component has a life of say 2 years or whatever mileage then it needs to be replaced well before that time is up again or it is only spinning the barrel of the loaded gun one more time

Now before people say "But what about this instance", people have to accept that springs snap because they do, so occasional snaps occur in all cars. The spring catcher was designed and patented in the USA as far back as 1989 so people were having problems even then.

Yes the Stilo springs need to be stronger but without being more brittle, flexible without suffering from fatigue. Fatigue takes time, manufacturers don't have time when launching a new model

 

[Ralph2]

Where'd he go?

Here! :yeahthat:

 

[Cris]

Where'd you get them Cris?

Europarts

If I had the time I'd have shopped around but I wanted something ASAP so didn't fancy fleabay.

Mind you they were supposed to arrive today and they didn't......

 

[Argonought]

Let's not forget that the front suspension has to turn as well as go up and down, of course. Now imagine you have a suspension spring in your hands, twist the spring up by turning the ends of the spring in the same direction as the coils and it's not much problem, now turn in the opposite direction and it doesn't like it at all as you are turning the coil back on itself

Now imagine the spring turned back on itself and it hasn't had chance to straighten back up again because it doesn't turn freely in the spring cup, now you go over a bump, spring extended outwards and compressed at the same time. It really doesn't like that!

Many very good points made there Decks,

Couple of things:

Are you suggesting the springs should be held static within their mounts and that problems occur on some Stilos when the spring slips OR are you suggesting the springs should be free to rotate in their mounts and problem occur when they can’t?

Obviously the answer to this would indicate totally opposite solutions to the problem (in theory at least).

REPLACEMENT THOUGHTS
Now when a component fails after a certain length of time in service, I can't see much point in replacing it with the same component. Unless you intend replacing it AGAIN long before it's expected useful life finishes then all you have done is renewed the hand grenade.

If a component has a life of say 2 years or whatever mileage then it needs to be replaced well before that time is up again or it is only spinning the barrel of the loaded gun one more time

As yet there’s no evidence at all that either after market or replacement OEM springs are likely to fail.

The notion that creaking suspension could act as an early warning of potential spring failure could certainly prove very useful.

My original springs are still OK and no sign of suspension creaking from mine either

Perhaps another poll could prove the point (eveyone groans )

 

[dan-the-man]

Well my springs are starting to creak like mad now, I'll have to grease them up again at the weekend and make sure I have enough money in the bank if the worst happens

It would be useful to know that if anyone who's had their spring snap has had creaking from the suspension before they snapped?