i would love to pop over sometime and chat to you about this as my friend is still trying to talk me into a busa conversion but i cant get my head around the drive
General Putting a bike engine in a Sei?
- Thread starter Renrut
- Start date
Currently reading:
General Putting a bike engine in a Sei?
Yeah you're welcome to pop round and see it an have a chat or ask any questions. You've got a PM with my mobby number if you want to give me a ring about it.
Just to give some insight into my thoughts on the project so far :
The drive system is pretty heath-robinson on these things. Since doing the drive system I've thought of a lot of ways of doing it much better and tbh the best option if funds are available is to fork out for one of the Quaife gearbox ones or similar as making it all work and keeping it compact (the cento has a very short rear end) is difficult. Also go for a proper gear final drive rather than chain. Chains have minimum design lengths which make it rather difficult to fit it all in the back end especially if you're using a longitudinal twin like I have. A gear drive solves so many problems (lubrication, alignment, tension, safety, reliability) that its the reason cars use gearboxes not chain boxes.
Personally if I came to do a bike engine into a cento again then I'd aim to get it in the front driving the front wheels. I almost went that route this time and it would have made a lot of jobs very much easier and probably avoided an IVA. The trick is making it compact enough to not have to extend the front end at all as that's when the handling really suffers. Weight wise a 1000cc bike engine will maybe be 10kg lighter than the 1108cc but you'll need some sort of cradle which could easily eat that up. Power you'll need at least 120bhp to make it worthwhile. Bear in mind the busa engine is a 1300cc so will weigh more than the 1108 (about 110kg iirc)
TBH the best high power cento you could build will probably be a 1.4T SuperFIRE. Price up a 1.4T superfire vs a busa engine and suddenly the busa isn't so appealing.
Just my thoughts and I'd be the last to put someone off a crazy project but think things through very carefully and take a lot of measurements before making that first cut.
Also a V4 like a Honda Pan Euro might be a better in car option than the busa, more torquey and much more driveable along with being dirt cheap and compact to. Iirc they're shaft drive too which solves another problem...
Just to give some insight into my thoughts on the project so far :
The drive system is pretty heath-robinson on these things. Since doing the drive system I've thought of a lot of ways of doing it much better and tbh the best option if funds are available is to fork out for one of the Quaife gearbox ones or similar as making it all work and keeping it compact (the cento has a very short rear end) is difficult. Also go for a proper gear final drive rather than chain. Chains have minimum design lengths which make it rather difficult to fit it all in the back end especially if you're using a longitudinal twin like I have. A gear drive solves so many problems (lubrication, alignment, tension, safety, reliability) that its the reason cars use gearboxes not chain boxes.
Personally if I came to do a bike engine into a cento again then I'd aim to get it in the front driving the front wheels. I almost went that route this time and it would have made a lot of jobs very much easier and probably avoided an IVA. The trick is making it compact enough to not have to extend the front end at all as that's when the handling really suffers. Weight wise a 1000cc bike engine will maybe be 10kg lighter than the 1108cc but you'll need some sort of cradle which could easily eat that up. Power you'll need at least 120bhp to make it worthwhile. Bear in mind the busa engine is a 1300cc so will weigh more than the 1108 (about 110kg iirc)
TBH the best high power cento you could build will probably be a 1.4T SuperFIRE. Price up a 1.4T superfire vs a busa engine and suddenly the busa isn't so appealing.
Just my thoughts and I'd be the last to put someone off a crazy project but think things through very carefully and take a lot of measurements before making that first cut.
Also a V4 like a Honda Pan Euro might be a better in car option than the busa, more torquey and much more driveable along with being dirt cheap and compact to. Iirc they're shaft drive too which solves another problem...
Cheers, I had seen that one and it had appeared to die with no updates in quite some time (about 2 years!).
Having gone through a similar thing I can understand why a lot of projects like that go quiet and die, usually not enough forethought and experience before starting. I'm probably a month of hard work off having it up and running, another 6 months from full road legality.
Next project after this is already mentally planned and far less ambitious, just need to get this one finished so that I can get the garage space back and use this to go to work in!
Having gone through a similar thing I can understand why a lot of projects like that go quiet and die, usually not enough forethought and experience before starting. I'm probably a month of hard work off having it up and running, another 6 months from full road legality.
Next project after this is already mentally planned and far less ambitious, just need to get this one finished so that I can get the garage space back and use this to go to work in!
Not been on here for ages, glad after a search ive found that your still with it... Sorry to hear about the job, im in the same boat at the min... But dont give up!!!
It hit a milestone yesterday with all the chassis welding done, was worried about the chassis strength so I put some more bracing in. Some tying the front and rear lower halves together more and some tying the rear lower and upper halves together. Feels a lot more rigid now so I'm happy with it.
before the extra braces were put in:
after:
quick peak under the bonnet:
It still has wiring to do and then I can run it up and see how things are. I've got about 2 months from now to get it all up and running, pass an MOT and then its due to be down at Santa Pod on 17th Sept for PPC's £999 challenge. :slayer:
So far its only cost me about £930 so as long as I don't have any serious MOT issues I should be able to get it sorted but I know those 2 months will disappear in a blink.
After the £999 challenge I'm gonna carry on with it and get it properly IVA'd and finished off with a barrier between passengers and engine, carpets, roof lining, vented rear windows, proper dash dash and probably get the suspension sorted as its riding a bit high all round right now.
before the extra braces were put in:
after:
quick peak under the bonnet:
It still has wiring to do and then I can run it up and see how things are. I've got about 2 months from now to get it all up and running, pass an MOT and then its due to be down at Santa Pod on 17th Sept for PPC's £999 challenge. :slayer:
So far its only cost me about £930 so as long as I don't have any serious MOT issues I should be able to get it sorted but I know those 2 months will disappear in a blink.
After the £999 challenge I'm gonna carry on with it and get it properly IVA'd and finished off with a barrier between passengers and engine, carpets, roof lining, vented rear windows, proper dash dash and probably get the suspension sorted as its riding a bit high all round right now.
Keep your chin up, looks like the job market is picking up! I took a job up in st helens about 3 months ago yet I've had about 4 calls from recruitment agents since then trying to fill vacancies.
Get yourself on Monster if you haven't already, its like a game of buzzword bingo, if you have the right buzzwords on your CV they just start calling you!
Time for a bit of an update as the 999 is looming. Vids of it running and moving! But only 20ft on the driveway as its completely illegal on the road right now.
ETA - I've removed the links as apparently they're against the rules. Can't be bothered sorting it out. They're over on my photobucket site for those interested.
ETA - I've removed the links as apparently they're against the rules. Can't be bothered sorting it out. They're over on my photobucket site for those interested.
Last edited:
Car looking and sounding brilliant mate. Hows it idling at the mo. hard to tell from the videos.
Dan
Hows it idling at the mo. hard to tell from the videos.Dan
It idles ok now once its warm. Just have to tweak the choke a little to get it started. Probably need to adjust the IAV to perfect it.
Challenge now is getting it down to Santa Pod for the 999 challenge. Various options but probably gonna try and get a towbar for my daily and hire a trailer.
Challenge now is getting it down to Santa Pod for the 999 challenge. Various options but probably gonna try and get a towbar for my daily and hire a trailer.
Cinq-power
New member
wwwDOTtrekstangDOTnl
I know this is in dutch but this is much cheaper then renting a trailer everytime.
The maker of these towbars has informed bij the UK government and this is completly legal overhere and overthere.
Btw, this save a lot of space in the shed.
Super nice project it still is.
I know this is in dutch but this is much cheaper then renting a trailer everytime.
The maker of these towbars has informed bij the UK government and this is completly legal overhere and overthere.
Btw, this save a lot of space in the shed.
Super nice project it still is.
Thanks for the suggestion but I'm aware of A-frames, the problem with them is if I take it to a track day and stack it, bend a wheel or a wishbone then I've got no chance of getting it back home.
Also A-frames are technically only allowed for emergency towing and the vehicle being towed must be taxed+mot'd too. I know a lot of people use them for much more but I'd rather not take the chance.
murphya
New member
Nice set up interesting I had an Idea of putting a 300zx turbo engine in an old kit car we have but I'm to lazy plus it's around 300bhp an kit car 700kg don't think there would be any traction on the back end do u do all ur welding ur self I like it get some vids on you tube when it's done matey
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2007
- Messages
- 4,936
- Points
- 744
was up for sale a long while ago...
Not for sale anymore. No interest and I decided I wanted to finish it. So progress still continuing.
Planning to get it to PPC in the Park in May for some track action. Lots of snaggin to do in the mean time. As a list:
Clutch isn't great, it seems to lock up, I'm guessing its due to mismatched master and slave. Its an MR2 master and the SP1 slave. Need to take them both off and see what the volumes are.
Radiator fan needs a thermoswitch, at the moment its just a spade plug for on/off when I think the rad is getting hot.
Dash needs sorting out.
Electric demister needs wiring in.
Lots of cables and pipes need clamping properly in place.
Rear arches need extending to cover the wheels, possibly using some stuck on plastic things.
Could really do with swapping the cams out for a set with the backlash gears still on but its no biggie.
I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff but none of it is a show stopper.
The HG problems have disappeared. It seemed to be a combination of the extreme cold the winter and not torquing down the head enough (2 different settings depending on if you're reusing the bolts or not with about 5lbft between them).
Planning to get it to PPC in the Park in May for some track action. Lots of snaggin to do in the mean time. As a list:
Clutch isn't great, it seems to lock up, I'm guessing its due to mismatched master and slave. Its an MR2 master and the SP1 slave. Need to take them both off and see what the volumes are.
Radiator fan needs a thermoswitch, at the moment its just a spade plug for on/off when I think the rad is getting hot.
Dash needs sorting out.
Electric demister needs wiring in.
Lots of cables and pipes need clamping properly in place.
Rear arches need extending to cover the wheels, possibly using some stuck on plastic things.
Could really do with swapping the cams out for a set with the backlash gears still on but its no biggie.
I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff but none of it is a show stopper.
The HG problems have disappeared. It seemed to be a combination of the extreme cold the winter and not torquing down the head enough (2 different settings depending on if you're reusing the bolts or not with about 5lbft between them).
good job dude, me like just take the airbox out add some power cones with a roof/side scopes for air intake sp1 is good engine very very reliable (good ol' honda)
Side scoops was what I was thinking of but I still want to keep it subtle looking and I'm struggling to find any off the shelf that would suit AND bring the air into the right place for the airbox and radiator AND meet the IVA test requirements for not maiming pedestrians.
Its got some K&N cones in the airbox already. I've taken the front 'muzzle' off the airbox so it can pull air in from front and sides.
I did try the airbox round backwards to I could get a nice curve into the airboxes but it never ran right, sounded like it was missing a lot. Turned it back and it runs sweet. Very odd. Apparently it runs slightly different fuelling front and back so a remap or powercommander might be necessary to fix that.
I'm gonna have a battle keeping it under the 105dB limit at a lot of tracks so until I know I've got room to spare for the noise tests it'll stay on as it quietens it down a bit.
I suppose taking the three rear windows out would not be subtle then...
What about a scoop not on the roof but in it? Or would most of the air skim over, or worse create a vacuum?
What about a scoop not on the roof but in it? Or would most of the air skim over, or worse create a vacuum?
Lol subtle in that it doesn't scream look at me or I've got something special. It's usually a sure fire way for plod to pull you over every time you go out in it. No rear windows and it'll just look like a van version. Maybe
Scoop in the roof is something I thought about as its a sunroof shell anyway so doing some sort of duct wouldn't be difficult. But I don't have access to the air flow simulations I previously did so working out if it'll work or not won't be easy and it'll not something I fancy guessing at. As you said a simple hole in the top may well work like a venturi and suck air out.
The subtle vs side scoops thing is one thats causing me a lot of aggro. It really needs much better rear ventilation but I don't want something that screams F&F. Might be better to go for some sort of mesh gills or something.
Scoop in the roof is something I thought about as its a sunroof shell anyway so doing some sort of duct wouldn't be difficult. But I don't have access to the air flow simulations I previously did so working out if it'll work or not won't be easy and it'll not something I fancy guessing at. As you said a simple hole in the top may well work like a venturi and suck air out.
The subtle vs side scoops thing is one thats causing me a lot of aggro. It really needs much better rear ventilation but I don't want something that screams F&F. Might be better to go for some sort of mesh gills or something.
how is this project progressing i have just got a cinq that was going to be a clubman rally car now its going to be a yam r1 rwd i have had a diffrent spin on the rear though i am looking to use x19 rear trailing arms and stubs and uno turbo d/s modified to suit and am also looking to use a fiat diff lsd if i can find one as it just make life easier at the spares shop also i am not far away from you (leyland) it must be something in northen water looking to sit it on 15" rims too to make sure it has plenty of traction and its cheaper on tyres
Similar threads
- Question
