General Potential Panda…

[SB1500]

Yep. Lots of talk about the age of the Panda running gear being 21 years old but does it matter?

I know, personally I like that. I like that there's around 30 years of expertise and experience with the 'FIRE' engine (not least on FF!) and that its flaws are well known, easy to live with and fix. I like the simplicity of it all. The safety thing in particular, now I know that the 0 stars doesn't mean much and is mostly to do with the lack of 'fancy tech' which doesn't do much either practically speaking. But it's how light and how soft the suspension is leading to it lifting up at the rear in the crash. Things like that I suppose, and I'm no Panda sceptic other than that. It's more to do with having a child in the back these days which was never an issue for me in the past to think about, an empty back seat and boot was plenty of crumple room. Other than that, the running gear is grand to me. I just took satisfaction in how well both my Panda's ran.

Everything on top is just micro-changes and in-built obsolescence masquerading as needs.

I was genuinely excited in 2019 to get my new one with air conditioning!!! Not that it ever killed me to live without it. I sicken myself sometimes when I look at other potential cars and automatically think snobbishly about 'well I can't buy that, that doesn't have an auto-dimming mirror, that would be a downgrade from my Avensis!' mentality. Going back to a Panda, to putting my lights on and wipers adjusted as I drive.. there's a beauty to the simplicity. Those things never bothered me in the past. I'd like to go back to that.

Pity the phone companies trying to flog their latest models as the specs converge - they have only the obsolescence (4 upgrades support) to force continual upgrades by their capricious consumers. Which brings me to a radio advert on Fab FM (Greatest hits radio). A dealer advert swooning over you with models to which you can 'upgrade'. What? I can upgrade my car? Alas, it appears to involve hundreds of quid per month and a visit to the VW dealership, rather than the more prosaic and familiar upgrade path (a sigh/frown, family bag of Doritos and a restart, depending on your download speed).

I could understand 2007, - 2011 with the iPhone with how drastically they were improving each year and the competition. But it's a shame they've backed themselves into a perpetual need to deliver something new every year. The shareholders won't be happy if they don't, and I suppose it didn't build Apple into what it is today (financial size wise) either... But what's worse is people buy into it! I'm a pretty techy person of the Apple variant, but most people around me aren't and they trade in every year when their network app tells them they can.

I still don't get the economics of folks trading in their cars annually or even every 3 years. Tax?! I'm not rich enough to understand all that jazz.

Fiat have shown through the 2007 500 and even the 2011 revamp current Panda that they can have a commercial success and respectable brand image and a place in the world for doing something insanely well with the same 'old' running gear and as long as it puts a smile on peoples faces and works well, nobody complains. They've just taken it a bit too far this last 8 years with such a lack of R&D and new models, or attention given to the Panda and 500 that kept them alive and well. I like the 500 Electric, but the 500 (normal model) buyers aren't the same buyers of the 500 E. Pricing is just on a different planet.

By now I'd have hoped there would be at least a new body on the largely same current Panda platform even with the new Firefly engine, or some kind of half decent Hybrid system - I don't care if the rear-view mirror, dome light and suspension bits are identical to the 2003 Panda if need be. I'd have bought it and I bet a lot of others who owned the Panda / 500 over the last two decades would have as well.

If it wasn't for Stellantis, it would be so much easier. To wait and see what they bring out next. It'd still be a Fiat. but no more will that be the case.

 

[Twotone2]

There was a thread on here a few weeks ago and a photo of a dealer somewhere in the south of England with literally hundreds of Fiat 500s on its forecourt/storage area.

 

[SB1500]

There was a thread on here a few weeks ago and a photo of a dealer somewhere in the south of England with literally hundreds of Fiat 500s on its forecourt/storage area.

I wonder where. Get me an all black one with the black (non Barbie) interior and a decent spec and I'll get on to SkyScanner for flights ;-) lol

 

[Twotone2]

I wonder where. Get me an all black one with the black (non Barbie) interior and a decent spec and I'll get on to SkyScanner for flights ;-) lol

I can't remember the thread but I was quite shocked/surprised at the amount of cars they had in stock.

 

[SB1500]

I can't remember the thread but I was quite shocked/surprised at the amount of cars they had in stock.

To be fair, our main Fiat dealer in NI tends to stock plenty of 500s. Mostly with the Ivory bright interiors and a variety of flashy colours. But not many of the more exotic ones like the convertible tops or leather seat options etc sadly. Or for me, a black model that doesn't stand out too much. Though I'd gladly drive that bright yellow Panda above! (Panda owns it!)

 

[Twotone2]

To be fair, our main Fiat dealer in NI tends to stock plenty of 500s. Mostly with the Ivory bright interiors and a variety of flashy colours. But not many of the more exotic ones like the convertible tops or leather seat options etc sadly. Or for me, a black model that doesn't stand out too much. Though I'd gladly drive that bright yellow Panda above! (Panda owns it!)

I sold a set of tyres to a forum member the other day he turned to collect the tyres up in a yellow 4x4 Panda cross, the car looked amazing in that colour.

 

[SB1500]

I sold a set of tyres to a forum member the other day he turned to collect the tyres up in a yellow 4x4 Panda cross, the car looked amazing in that colour.

I'd love either all black (like I used to have), any of the red shades, bright yellow, tuscany green, the deep blue or gray colours. In reality if the right price / right location / right spec car came up I'd probably get it though. Those are my favourite Panda colours. In my area, white is the dominant Fiat colour. Followed by turqoise 500's

 

[Twotone2]

I'd love either all black (like I used to have), any of the red shades, bright yellow, tuscany green, the deep blue or gray colours. In reality if the right price / right location / right spec car came up I'd probably get it though. Those are my favourite Panda colours. In my area, white is the dominant Fiat colour. Followed by turqoise 500's

Ours is white, I really like the colour, but I was going to buy a black Panda 4x4 only saw photos of it online on the dealer's website (might have been a video too) and I'm glad we bought a white one, I would have bought the black one but IMO the white ones are nicer looking.

There's someone up the road from me with the exact same car as ours (same colour) same reg year too.

 

[jrkitching]

I would have bought the black one but IMO the white ones are nicer looking

They're also a whole lot easier to keep looking nice.

I once bought a black car, and despite taking very great care over cleaning, the paintwork soon showed every tiny scratch & swirl.

Never again.

 

[scotsstag]

I sold a set of tyres to a forum member the other day he turned to collect the tyres up in a yellow 4x4 Panda cross, the car looked amazing in that colour.

You certainly did my friend

 

[The Panda Nut]

I had a Ford Focus as a company car. Top of the range 1.0 jobbie. The press raved about it. They said the best thing ever....
No doubt its a very good car and it went well but did all of 30mpg. I drove it to the Fiat garage and left it on their forcourt for soemone to collect when I bought my Bravo 1.6D.

As a form form of long distance cruiser for vast work milage the Bravo was comprehensively a better car in most respects. The hype in the press about a car costing nearly twice what I paid for the Bravo was pretty innane rubbish. Being able to do 65mpg at all times and a lot more when needed was the icing on its cake. Being vastly less twitchy than the Ford was a safer option for the majority of the time. Bravo was smoother in many respects and more relaxing. Old is therefore not bad. It definitely meant it was easily just as good overall. The poor ride described by the motoring press was easily as good as the Focus overall. Im sure on a timed lap, the focus would have been quicker especially on bad surfaces where its independant rear suspension would have shone. There is however no doubt in my mind which I would rather own. All this total guff about the Panda being out of date is marketing hogwash. I hope one day I meet a marketing man and a motoring jounalist in dire need of extraction from a snow drift. I shall be delighted to charge them a royal fortune for helping, in cash and in advance.

The Panda 4x4 is exceptionally comfortable by any standard. It does 70mph very very easily and thats the national limit. It keeps up with traffic easily, fully loaded, and towing a trailer with 500kgs on the back. Its capable at a push of 60mpg which makes it vaguley acceptable environmentally. Tyres and brakes last well too. When I rock into a space in Tesco's, or the 2/3 thats usually left by the behomoth drivers around here... I can open the doos and get out.

If progress is, needless speed outrageous bulk and weight, and dangerous levels of acceleration, oversized tyres and silly styling, ultra low profile tyres that ride badly and fail to protect expensive fancy wheels with super expensive service costs, including sackfuls of spark plugs and gallons of oil, give me a very comfortable Panda 4x4 every single day of the year. I dont regularly cross continents so the benfits of these undertaxed great lunaticmobiles escape me almsot completely. The only down side is the interior space for families but we managed with a small car for many years.

When someone makes a better form of transport than the Panda 4x4 Im interested. That will indeed be progress. I suspect it will never happen though.

 

[SB1500]

When someone makes a better form of transport than the Panda 4x4 Im interested. That will indeed be progress. I suspect it will never happen though

I reckon, at best, the new PSA Panda will probably have some bolt on ‘traction rear wheel support’ system, marketed as the 4x4 I doubt they’ll make a dedicated, capable (old school simple design) for just the Panda 4x4, which won’t pay off for the Corsa..208..C3 variants which at best might have a traction plus ‘all wheel’ option. I hope I’m wrong

 

[Marcus Daly]

As a form form of long distance cruiser for vast work milage the Bravo was comprehensively a better car in most respects. The hype in the press about a car costing nearly twice what I paid for the Bravo was pretty innane rubbish. Being able to do 65mpg at all times and a lot more when needed was the icing on its cake. Being vastly less twitchy than the Ford was a safer option for the majority of the time. Bravo was smoother in many respects and more relaxing. Old is therefore not bad. It definitely meant it was easily just as good overall. The poor ride described by the motoring press was easily as good as the Focus overall. Im sure on a timed lap, the focus would have been quicker especially on bad surfaces where its independant rear suspension would have shone. There is however no doubt in my mind which I would rather own.

I briefly had a rental Bravo for a few weeks between company cars in 2000. I know renters have hard lives, but it was less than a year old and already completely knackered. The Peugeot 406 I had after it felt like a Rolls in comparison.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I reckon, at best, the new PSA Panda will probably have some bolt on ‘traction rear wheel support’ system, marketed as the 4x4 I doubt they’ll make a dedicated, capable (old school simple design) for just the Panda 4x4, which won’t pay off for the Corsa..208..C3 variants which at best might have a traction plus ‘all wheel’ option. I hope I’m wrong

If your still looking at PSA Fiats your a better bet for them than me. I cant stand them! In my personal experience a very nasty company with extarordinarily bad after sales and customer service. I spent over 150K with them only to be brushed off when a problem arose.
Its a shame that the likes of the the 2CV,the R4 and R5 and the Panda are all gone along with the companies that made them.

I live in Norfolk. its wet and VERY VERY muddy here in the winter. Posh cars with thick carpets are of little value or use here when wearing muddy wellies. I suspect there are far far more people living like I do that lording it in the high rise penthouses of the super rich where such things are ??useful??, but hey ho we should all be driving Bently Bent Aygahs in the marketing mens minds. I hope the Panda lasts bodily. Im already making enquiries about potential conversion to electricity if the engine dies. An increase in speed will of course not be required! I would be considering two new Pandas now, were they still available. Our Seat must be going to die this year. It cannot carry on much longer surely. What we will replace it with I have no real ideas. The annual cost of that acr has been so little it make a very good case for a straight replacement.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I briefly had a rental Bravo for a few weeks between company cars in 2000. I know renters have hard lives, but it was less than a year old and already completely knackered. The Peugeot 406 I had after it felt like a Rolls in comparison.

I did over 100K in mine in littel more than 2 years. Its till looked and felt like new apart from a gearbox bearing whistlting, when I decided to get shot. It average 64mpg including around 10K towing a caravan. The engine was better at 100K than ever. Only one set of replacement brakes and tyres and a back silencer that was damged by a large rock. Maybe the difference between driving your own car and lookking after it and rental. I had a Panda on hire in Italy this year. At 17K it was ready for the scrap heap, totally unsaleable ay any price in my book and worsein every way from my PAnda 100 when traded at 108K. That too was still like new inside and out I saw a bravo with 265K on hte clock that was still in saleable condition afew years back.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I reckon, at best, the new PSA Panda will probably have some bolt on ‘traction rear wheel support’ system, marketed as the 4x4 I doubt they’ll make a dedicated, capable (old school simple design) for just the Panda 4x4, which won’t pay off for the Corsa..208..C3 variants which at best might have a traction plus ‘all wheel’ option. I hope I’m wrong

If it dont look like a panda dont quack like a panda and dont walk like a Panda it aint a Panda! Give the new Stellantis a new name for heavens sake.

 

[SB1500]

If it dont look like a panda dont quack like a panda and dont walk like a Panda it aint a Panda! Give the new Stellantis a new name for heavens sake.

You’re right. But I’m not sure they will ditch the namesake.

Look at the current Corsa. It’s a 208. The 208 was never a top 5 seller. Corsa has been consistently.

They’ve gone and put a Vauxhall badge on the 208. And the general public is still buying that 208 dressed like a Corsa in the same massive figures.

There seems to be a lot of marketable value in a name. No matter how little authenticity is in the product bearing the name

 

[Marcus Daly]

I reckon, at best, the new PSA Panda will probably have some bolt on ‘traction rear wheel support’ system, marketed as the 4x4 I doubt they’ll make a dedicated, capable (old school simple design) for just the Panda 4x4, which won’t pay off for the Corsa..208..C3 variants which at best might have a traction plus ‘all wheel’ option. I hope I’m wrong

Said it before and I'll say it again, Stellantis don't want to sell us 4x4 Fiats, they want to sell us Jeeps.

We've seen the last Panda 4x4.

 

[StevenRB45]

You’re right. But I’m not sure they will ditch the namesake.

Look at the current Corsa. It’s a 208. The 208 was never a top 5 seller. Corsa has been consistently.

They’ve gone and put a Vauxhall badge on the 208. And the general public is still buying that 208 dressed like a Corsa in the same massive figures.

Erm...the 208 is consistently one of the best selling cars in Europe? 2022 it was number one for sales across the continent...this year it was 4th as of November.

The Corsa on the other hand sells less except in the UK. However they probably don't care which one you buy..

This is likely what the plan is...sell "localised" versions of the same car.

Take this...they were ok...when they were released over a decade ago they are now incredibly out of date and not particularly good. But they are small and built in Italy so the Italians buy them especially now no one else really makes superminis.

Lancia Ypsilon, a record breaker in 2023

This is the second record year in a row for Lancia, with a volume growth of 9% versus previous year and the second highest market share ever of 14.9% in the B-segment.

www.media.stellantis.com

 

[SB1500]

Erm...the 208 is consistently one of the best selling cars in Europe?

Talking about the UK bud. No doubt it’s a good seller in Europe.