Tuning Performance Panda Pondering thread

[alexbpl]

So I've got the 16v engine and everything is running sweet now. Next practical upgrade is a Punto gearbox but that can wait a while untill I have literally no gear teeth left.

Now self admittedly this is very sad and it would make sense to leave everything alone for an easier life - but it seems my life is bland without spending till 12pm every night underneath a Panda, having all my mates gathered round telling me I'm mentally unstable and that I've already created a go-kart on steroids so why do anything else but....

What is the next step for engine upgrading? Is it a DIY forced induction, or a Punto GT engine. Many reasons for and against both of those though. What about a VAG 1.8 20vt engine! Probably wise to stick to Fiat actually.

I need upgraded brakes though thats for sure. Is there a family upgrade to disks for the rear of a Panda? As for the front I'll have to get in touch with Lewey and see if he's got the Wilwood calipers still.

I'm aware that safety needs to be upgraded along with performance, so already looking at that.

Let me know what you guys think

 

[CLXCraig]

I wouldn't go for a PGT. heavy and runliable, handling will be ruined unless you buy some expensive coilies.

Not sure many people have done forced induction on a 16v only person i can think of is Munkul, read this. done a good job and it all looks well assembled. he made is own manifold and other bits. don't know if you could do the same.

https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/223834-mk2-sporting-turbo.html

I know Aran did, but it wasn't the best success.

Put a thread in the cento section about turboing a 16v. a few of them know they're stuff and could probably tell you the best options.

One of the guys in there has just finsihed a conversion, using a GT1517? turbo, volvo injectors, methanol/water mist injector. Think the biggest issue is internals really. the wiring and construction, aint that hard if you know your stuff.

Before you go forced though try and get as much from this as possible? i know on the 1368 conversions some people use brava fuel rails, injectors and TB as they are much better for flow.

Alternatively. buy another panda, and find a rear ended right off t-jat punto/bravo.

Serious panda power

 

[alexbpl]

Yeah I disregarded the Punto GT engine idea almost as soon as I looked into it. They have a poor power output considering the weight and would make the Panda front end heavy which would make handling certain death.

I think Munkel turbo'd a Mk2 Punto 1.2 16v engine, his thread is still very useful as he has good problem solvers for pre-ignition and so on.

From day 1 of discovering Panda engine changes, I really fancied a TDI engine from one of the later Punto diesel fuelled cars. The torque figures are very impressive and would make a Panda shift like **** off a shovel.

Not sure how you even start with a diesel conversion though. I imagine the entire fuel system is totally different and it would be considerably difficult to wire up with one of the later Punto engines.

I'm going to look into it though and get to grips with what disel models/types and power outputs are available through the Punto range.

Fast, dirty diesels are something I have a soft spot for - and with fuel prices etc you could just cruise round on idle with those torque figures in a Panda.

 

[panda1408]

A diesel conversion is something I quite like the idea of myself, imagine the MPG!

The 1.3 multijet is the engine the use, the only other Fiat diesels are the 1.9 Multijet and the older 1.7 used in mk1 Puntos and Unos which would obviously be far too big and heavy for a Panda. The Panda was ofcourse available with a 1.3 non turbo diesel in Europe, which was used in the Uno here I think, but it was no doubt very slow and heavy.

I'm not sure if the 1.3 multijet is based on the FIRE engine? If it is it would simplify things abit I think, hardest part would no doubt be the electrics though, and you would probably need to beef up the front suspension abit becuase of the extra weight.

 

[CLXCraig]

highly doubt it's fire based, probly a smaller version of the 1.9.

could go for a 1.9/2.2 twin turbo diesl from a saab/lancia. same engine just bigger and they shift some too having experienced the 1.9TTiD saab 9-3

1.3 mjet will be hard to get hold of as it's only recently been introduced.

I'd like diesel panda too, especiialy with my 300ish miles a week, costs a fortune

 

[panda1408]

Found this thread from a couple of years ago:

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/141448-diesel-engine.html

Aslong as the 1.3 will actually fit in the engine it could be done, although I reckon you would have to make most of the mounts and things yourself rather than just being able to use Fiat parts.

True about it being hard to get hold of, although I reckon written off ones will start coming up for sale now as it is a few years since they were first introduced.

The larger diesels would be out of the question unless you do some serious modification to the front end.

 

[alexbpl]

Did I just hear Saab twin turbo diesel?

That sounds very interesting.

Any ideas on a particular engine model/type?

I think the 1.3 Punto diesel engine would be a pretty good retrofit. The MPG figures would be superb, probably 65+ with ease. Great idea for an eco-engine swap.

Personally I'd prefer something bigger like a 2.0 or a 1.9 for the performance aspect.

This Saab twin turbo engine sounds great. Hopefully it's a nice light engine and not a 'cast iron everything.'

 

[Blurredman]

peugeot 205 gti engine?

 

[alexbpl]

peugeot 205 gti engine?

If I was going down the Pug route, I'd probably use the 2.0 Mi16 engine engine they sometimes fit into 205 gti's.

Full aluminium blocks which are nice and light, along with the 160bph they put out almost straight away.

Still fancy a diesel though

I've done FIRE engine swaps and other 'family' engine swaps, but never crossed over manufacturers.

How hard is it to make / design engine mounting to fit the Panda body?

 

[CLXCraig]

you could do a 2.0 redtop 20xe? conversion. one guy has doen it in a cinq and it was running about 200bhp. i think the whole panda would twist though.

Toyota 4age? commonly available and come in a huge variety of forms.

or a bike engine?

 

[L7 KVV]

Talked a guy in work into selling me an engine, he has an astra gte 1.8 on carbs, or a red-top 2.0. But i bottled it when i seen the amount of work the body needs.

 

[panda1408]

I think a bigger engine would be abit pointless really, it would be a huge amount of work and you would probably just end up with an undrivable car, however if you want to do it I'm not going to stop you and I suppose it would be interesting to see it done.

I think the 1.3 multijets can be remapped up to around 100bhp maybe more? So it wouldn't be slow, plus someone on the forum got over 80mpg out their mk3 Panda so you might see 3 figure mpg if you put one in a mk2 Panda.

 

[alexbpl]

I totally agree that increasing engine size in a Panda is not the way forward, especially for petrol engines, however I would like to fit a larger diesel engine as you get great MGP and great power for a light car.

Not sure if thats possible though with FIRE derived engines as said earlier the mountings are different and shape/size issues occur.

In my opinion Panda's are good for straight lines and very smooth corners. The suspension design doesn't cope well with fast bumps or fast cornering so really any serious engine upgrades are dangerous unless you totally re-design the layout of the car e.g- RWD, mid engine, Independant rear suspension etc

Mods which I have like the Y10 arb and lowered springs do make handling a lot better but the current state of the countries roads can make driving to work a challenge!

Diesel power - I'm hooked

 

[Luke P]

First question: How long has the 1242 been in the car?

Second question: If you're bored already how many miles have you covered with your new 1242; it must have been plenty if you're already bored with much more than you need.......

What you need is twin Weber DCOE 40's and Megajolt.... that **** won't let you have time to get bored.

Trackday time soon for you... squeal those tyres and realise what you've got!

I'm jealous but I'm not if you know what I mean......................

Punto HGT may be the answer... or maybe this:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...a=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbs=isch:1

Word...

 

[CLXCraig]

1.8hgt wouldn't be worth the hassle. they're not fire engines so will be a PITA

You could be the first to make a twin charged FIRE engine

FIRE TSI.... be mental!

either go turbo or bike carbs. turbo sounds more fun though

 

[alexbpl]

I think the engine has been in for just over a month now and I've probably done a good 700ish miles.

The panda is pretty good and I've already worn a set of tyres on the front as it will pull 0-60 in 8 seconds - which is too much fun not to try at every set of lights.

The direction I am now going is nitrous oxide injection...or 'NOS!!!' if your a chav.


Nitrous oxide injection has a lot of myths about it, firstly is is not as dangerous or powerful as most people think and it's not illegal either. If anything you should actually be a LOT more worried about the tank of volatile petrol sitting under the car.

I'm going with a 'Wizards of NOS' kit and an 11b bottle, which I will set for a 75bhp shot of nitrous when at full throttle.

I have found one very cheap, as this kit retails at over £600. I believe that nitrous kits are the best performance increase for the least amount of money.

Installation is relatively simple and the kit comes with all solenoids, switches, injectors etc and can be configured for any setup. Even comes with a little green 'compressed gas' sign you need to put in your window.

Should have it fitted in a few weeks when it arrives

 

[Luke P]

Sounds like it'll fit the bill perfectly......... You gonna meet up with Lewey at Shakespeare County Raceway and dragrace for V5s?????

If you want a 1368cc Panda that might be the low effort way of going about it!

Nice one, can't wait to see it!

Luke.

 

[alexbpl]

Sounds like it'll fit the bill perfectly......... You gonna meet up with Lewey at Shakespeare County Raceway and dragrace for V5s?????

If you want a 1368cc Panda that might be the low effort way of going about it!

Nice one, can't wait to see it!

Luke.

Yes! I will ddefinately be drag racing it when I have the nitrous fitted.

I had a similar thought about it being a cheating way around a 1368

With a 75 shot of nitrous it should be putting out about 150bhp so the panda should fly!

A lot of people reckon that the major gas flow restriction on the punto engines are the inlet designs - which is why they respond very well to forced induction. Nitrous is a lot less effort for a similar performance increase and in my opinion it is also more predictable and reliable.

Speaking of reliable had a rather funny breakdown earlier today - the cam sensor fell out of the hole and my car cut out and wouldn't start. Was completely dumbfounded for about 30 mins till I spotted the gap was a bit larger than usual.

Fun and games

 

[purple haze]

Post dates to remind us please...would like to come and see it if i can....

 

[alexbpl]

Just been to a metal salvage yard with a bit of scap from jobs and noticed they had a weighbridge, so I asked if they could weigh my panda for me.

My 1995 Panda CLX, with a 1242 16v Punto engine, full interior including a fire extinguisher and everything how it should be - it weighs in at

716kg.

I would have guessed it at over 800!

happyhappyhappyhappy

Nitrous will make approx 150bhp. So in a 700kg (take the back seats out) car will be over 200 bhp/ton.