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Panda (Classic) Pandamonium

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Panda (Classic) Pandamonium

Fantasia

I sold Lee the Eaton M60 so he owed me one. ;)

When did this...

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...become my usual Friday night out (side)?

Well I took the carb' apart, nothing looked broken blocked or out of place. Put it back together without new gaskets as the ones I have are for a 32 tld not a tlf. :rolleyes:

Put it back on the car and now it only just runs on full choke. Bugger! Getting air in there as well. I'll wait for daylight before I open the swear box again.
 
Fantasia

Okay I'm going to throw this one out there.

What else could be the problem with my Panda?

I've stripped and reassembled the carb twice. None of the jets are blocked, there are no leaks, the diaphragm's are fine and it's torqued nice and tight.

To get the engine started I need full choke and full throttle, even then she runs very roughly and cuts out after ten or so seconds or if I adjust the throttle or choke positions. It's as if she's running out of fuel but the filter's full.

I've tried it with the sensor or without it makes no difference (as expected but I wanted to eliminate it as an electrical issue).

Replacement carb' on the way but could it be something else?
 
Fantasia

Hmmm, to try to get to the bottom of the engine only running for ten seconds at a time issue I thought I'd see if it was the fuel pump...

SfQzLwpw.jpg


...the fuel pump from the FrankenFiat was too much for the little Weber to take and flooded the chamber before I could turn the car over. With the air box back on the car now runs for between fifteen and twenty seconds so I think replacing the carb' is the right track.

Even though the distributor cap, rotor arm, coil and plugs are less then 300 miles old I checked those as well. The second time I stripped the carb' I sealed it with the instant gasket stuff, there is no fuel leaking and the symptoms haven't subsided. The alternator is making 13.8V, the exhaust isn't blowing, the compression per cylinder is fine (checked that while the plugs were off).

Could I have a stuck inlet valve?

That could cause the same problems and being a non-interference engine I wouldn't hear it; but the engine output would be diminished. Good; I don't fancy taking the head off. Roll on Wednesday so I can fit the new carb' and hope it works. ;)
 
Re: Fantasia

have you got the "point less" points syetem on the car?
it sounds a lot like what my car was doing when i first got it. i had to change... >This< thing and it made it work all good again. (btw, that is the cheapest one on ebay ;) )

if its not that, and is carb issues.. hmm..
i know when i stripped talons carb down it ran differently when i built it all back up. it never ran right until urchin came around and set it up for me. he checked and adjusted the ignition timing, and used a Co2 gas reader to tune the carb.

if its running lean (as i guess it is as it needs the choke out) have you tried richening the mixture using that little screw on the throttle side of the carb? just undo it a quarter of a turn and see if that is any different.

if it is a stuck inlet valve you would hear it sound different while cranking as it tries to compress the air in the cylinder. the crank speed would go faster on that one cylinder as the valve would pass.

hmm also in the float chamber, you didnt adjust the float height too much did you? causing the bowl not to fill up enough. i did this, but mine was not shutting the fuel off when full so it was flooding up through the two float chamber breathers, then draining down the jet causing the engine to over fuel.

wish i was there to give you a hand mate. i love the challenge of trying to get engines running.
 
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I checked that as well as best I could and it appears to be working perfectly (as did the starter motor so it doesn't mean a thing). I don't have the black box distributor and the points are fine. The timing may have skipped I'll double check the belt in a bit. I'll chuck the new carb on after work Wednesday (if it's here) and see if that solves it.

I stopped at a friends house the other day and noticed something he was up to. I don't usually pay much attention due to the bodges he's done in the past and this isn't much good but the idea itself has potential.

What he has done is capped the differential from a Yamaha shaft bike and put a sprocket on the input shaft.

2bCsyT4e.jpg


Pigeon crap welded some brackets to it (yes it isn't straight either) and extended the swing arm with more Pigeon crap welds holding some scrap box section in place. All leading up to a Sierra diff at the back.

vwSOHSBv.jpg


I wouldn't trust this to move itself let alone a kit car but...

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...if this were done properly with a simple ladder chassis and IRS cross member or subframe it could potentially be superb.

So why is it here?

If I can't get my FrankenFiat engine working I know where there's a CBR1000 sat in a shed doing nothing and where there's a Panda 4x4 rear axle to hook it up to. ;)
 
FrankenFiat CSI

I've narrowed the engine's problems down to two possibilities. The engine wasn't being lubricated because the pick up pipe was too short or the oil pump was knackered.

So I needed to get the sump off to investigate.

First the alternator and starter motor were removed...

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...while the oil was draining from the sump.

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When I removed the original 769cc FIRE engine I lifted it out. Thanks to various people who suggested it would be easier to drop under the car...

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...you were absolutely right and it took hardly any time at all. :)

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Sorry about that photo I had a choice between spending ten minutes getting the light rig out for you guys or use the twilight to put all the stuff away. I chose the latter after I carried the block indoors.

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I removed the sump to find the pick up pipe was less than a centimeter from the base.

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12.2cm

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13cm (Turinos are obviously not very superstitious).

So it wasn't the pipe. I do remember measuring before but couldn't remember how long it was. I probably would not have used it if it were too short but I wanted to make sure the failure wasn't by my doing.

I removed the pipe from the bottom of the oil pump and inside...

BRTjArcL.jpg


...it is bone dry. I refitted it and tested the "O" ring seal (by blowing down it) and there was no apparent lea so knackered oil pump then. I'm relieved and annoyed at the same time. Relief that I know what the problem is, annoyed as I know it's going to eat more budget to fix it. :rolleyes:
 
Rather than it being the oil pump being knackered, could it be that the engine has just not being turning fast enough for the pump to prime itself? It will take a while for the pressure to build up with the engine turning on the starter when it is turning over at full speed nevermind if it is turning over slow. Especially since the engine is bone dry.
 
I thought that but the cause was being caused by the effect.

Postmortem

I took the oil pump off...

l35Mitqv.jpg


...no silicone? It must be the original part. The date stamp confirms this.

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Dirty oil as well. So I think the engine could have been removed from the original car due to low oil pressure misdiagnosed as piston ring failure. I have no idea how the screws have been done up but even my impact driver isn't moving them.
 
It could be any one of many or several things. :(

I had another theory about the Fantasia fueling issue. The fuel filter looked a bit ropy so I thought maybe the crap in the filter was acting as a valve. When the engine is turning over the low pressure from the pump wasn't enough to clog it but as soon as the engine was running the filter clogged up, cutting the fuel off giving the symptoms of blocked jets or knackered pump. So I found this filter...

B17IbQqm.jpg


...from my old E36, fitted, primed and the results were exactly the same as before. The engine started and ran for about ten seconds before cutting out. Carb' next then pump. In the meantime I'm looking forward to cycling to work in the forecast blizzards. :)
 
Fantasia

Thumbsnap is back online so here's this weeks fun with my Fantasia.

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The carb' arrived a day late and was in a bit of a state so I spent an hour or so cleaning it up before I started messing about with the distributor.

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Having swapped the vacuum advance diaphragm for the one from the red Panda...

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...I managed to break one of the brackets. :rolleyes:

So I stripped it down...

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...fitted it all to the body of the red Panda distributor and...

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...did it again. :bang:

I had a look around for a replacement distributor online and they were none within a sensible price or distance so...

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...I cleaned it up as best I could and because the TIG part of my welder is crap had a go with the cast Aluminium welding rods I keep in my kitchen.

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At maximum output my welder wasn't quite enough to make a continuous arc so it I had to dot and dot instead of run. Still not bad for my first effort with Aluminium rods and due to the dot-dot the duty cycle wasn't an issue.

All refitted to the car and I was having the same problems as before only now she sounded rough as well. :(

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I took the distributor apart again and one of the earth terminals for the points had come off. I fitted the spare set from the red Panda, refitted it again...

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...just in time for the weather to turn. The car still cut out but did it a lot more smoothly at least. :)

So because I misdiagnosed the Pandas and took the carb' apart I had managed to cause more problems. Just as well I have a spare now. Fitted it and she's running perfectly again. Well; there's a flat spot and the car tries to cut out if I use too much choke but that's just a matter of fine adjustment.
 
Remember my 99p Weber 30 DMTF?

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It had the choke linkage missing so I bodged it with a little welding wire...

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...just to see if the rest of it was okay. Well now the TLF carb' from my Fantasia is basically scrap I wanted to see if the linkage from it...

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...would fit the DTMF. It does so my plan B carb' idea is back on. :)

With my newly discovered Aluminium welding ability I'm thinking of making one manifold out of the two in my shed...

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...like this. :)

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How hard could it be?
 
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