Ah, so it's more or less unique... Wonder how much power you'll get out of it...
Panda (Classic) Pandamonium
- Thread starter Liquid Knight
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Panda (Classic) Pandamonium
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Fantasia
Hmmmm, as part of my procrastination reduction resolution this year I thought I'd get a look at the starter motor today before work.
Starter motor removal is the the only job on a Fiat Panda that's troublesome. Unless you don't mind crawling about under the car to reach the bottom bolt or slashing your fingers open on the sharp loom holder under the inlet manifold that is.
Once off the starter motor shaft was covered in a thin layer of rust and properly stuck. So with a bit of WD40 and a screw driver under the sprocket...
...I teased the sprocket free and cleaned the shaft before testing it with a jump pack...
...all was well. I refitted the starter motor as it was getting dark, reconnected the battery and now I have no obvious electrical output whatsoever apart from the dashboard clock. Oh well that will give me something to do tomorrow at least.
Last night was the most boring night of the year unless you like dealing with drunk people setting fireworks off at all hours. So I decided to watch all four Taxi films back to back between jobs.
Then I spotted this...
...fair to say my respect for Luc Besson and his work has gone down a notch.
All the best for 2013 Rob.
Hmmmm, as part of my procrastination reduction resolution this year I thought I'd get a look at the starter motor today before work.
Starter motor removal is the the only job on a Fiat Panda that's troublesome. Unless you don't mind crawling about under the car to reach the bottom bolt or slashing your fingers open on the sharp loom holder under the inlet manifold that is.
Once off the starter motor shaft was covered in a thin layer of rust and properly stuck. So with a bit of WD40 and a screw driver under the sprocket...
...I teased the sprocket free and cleaned the shaft before testing it with a jump pack...
...all was well. I refitted the starter motor as it was getting dark, reconnected the battery and now I have no obvious electrical output whatsoever apart from the dashboard clock. Oh well that will give me something to do tomorrow at least.
Last night was the most boring night of the year unless you like dealing with drunk people setting fireworks off at all hours. So I decided to watch all four Taxi films back to back between jobs.
Then I spotted this...
...fair to say my respect for Luc Besson and his work has gone down a notch.
All the best for 2013 Rob.
The door looks save-able though .
.
The most important part!The door looks save-able though
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Taxi 3
To be fair I think the car was repaired as it appears again about twenty minutes later (a couple of days in plot time) as one of the car being overtaken by the Taxi on two wheels following a scooter.
Spotted another Panda in a the film Twin Town last night. When the twins steal the Uno 60S there's a burgundy 4x4 parked in the corner. Apart from the dubious burial at sea it was the highlight of the whole film.
To be fair I think the car was repaired as it appears again about twenty minutes later (a couple of days in plot time) as one of the car being overtaken by the Taxi on two wheels following a scooter.
Spotted another Panda in a the film Twin Town last night. When the twins steal the Uno 60S there's a burgundy 4x4 parked in the corner. Apart from the dubious burial at sea it was the highlight of the whole film.
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Fantasia
Rain stopped play yesterday. I had left the battery disconnected as I had no idea what the electrical fault was I didn't want the car to catch fire whilst waiting for further investigation.
As I had removed the starter motor my first thought was the earth strap at the back of the engine needing to be cleaned or even replaced, then I'd check the main fuses, relays and so on until I found the problem.
First off I reconnected the battery and tried the key to see if that would give me a clue as to what the problem was. The car started right away faultlessly. So I reassembled the air box and tried the car again and she's purring like a FIRE engine'd kitten again. I guess it was a bit of muck on the battery terminal that was cleaned off by removing and replacing it a couple of times.
Still while I was under the car the other day I did spot a bit of welding I had missed so need to get that done for the M.O.T that will hopefully be next weekend.
I may need the car soon as the company I work for has lost the contract at the site I work at so I may need to drive further afield soon. I'll use the Fantasia until my insurance miles are used up and get something cheap or have the other Panda ready by then.
Right I'm off to the job centre to see what other options there are.
Rain stopped play yesterday. I had left the battery disconnected as I had no idea what the electrical fault was I didn't want the car to catch fire whilst waiting for further investigation.
As I had removed the starter motor my first thought was the earth strap at the back of the engine needing to be cleaned or even replaced, then I'd check the main fuses, relays and so on until I found the problem.
First off I reconnected the battery and tried the key to see if that would give me a clue as to what the problem was. The car started right away faultlessly. So I reassembled the air box and tried the car again and she's purring like a FIRE engine'd kitten again. I guess it was a bit of muck on the battery terminal that was cleaned off by removing and replacing it a couple of times.
Still while I was under the car the other day I did spot a bit of welding I had missed so need to get that done for the M.O.T that will hopefully be next weekend.
I may need the car soon as the company I work for has lost the contract at the site I work at so I may need to drive further afield soon. I'll use the Fantasia until my insurance miles are used up and get something cheap or have the other Panda ready by then.
Right I'm off to the job centre to see what other options there are.
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Today I wanted to get the little bit of welding I noticed done and it is. So as far as I can tell the Fantasia is ready for M.O.T
Just one thing. I leaned on the car and a chunk of arch held in with filler fell off.
So this has been added to my watch list...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220967848109?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
...for when I get a decent job/win the lotto/sell a kidney/etc.
Following my adventures with starter motors I wanted to tackle the slow turning Franken-Fiat engine and find out why the belt slipped.
Without any inlet manifold and stuff in the way to cut your fingers open removing the starter was a much easier task...
...I did a bit of digging about and tested the three Fiat starter motors to see which one turned the fastest. Grande Punto, Cinquecento Sporting or Panda 1000. I think the Panda 750 starter went with the engine...
...and the winner is...
...the Panda 1000 one. Now fitted I reconnected the battery and it turned over a little quicker and died. So now the battery is on charge and I set about tuning the engine over at the crank to see what was moving about to throw the belt. Where I had welded the inside of the old pulley into the the new one there were a few spots of weld that weren't quite flat. So I took a grinder to it...
...refitted it and the belt runs straight and true now.
Still slow turning though I think it could be because there's limited oil in the crank bearings where the engine has been put together and stood. I'll pop the spark plugs out and crank the engine over (hopefully faster) to get the oil flowing and then try to restart the car later.
Back to work tomorrow and my transition day is Tuesday so at least the battery will be fully charged by then.
Just one thing. I leaned on the car and a chunk of arch held in with filler fell off.
So this has been added to my watch list...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220967848109?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
...for when I get a decent job/win the lotto/sell a kidney/etc.
Following my adventures with starter motors I wanted to tackle the slow turning Franken-Fiat engine and find out why the belt slipped.
Without any inlet manifold and stuff in the way to cut your fingers open removing the starter was a much easier task...
...I did a bit of digging about and tested the three Fiat starter motors to see which one turned the fastest. Grande Punto, Cinquecento Sporting or Panda 1000. I think the Panda 750 starter went with the engine...
...and the winner is...
...the Panda 1000 one. Now fitted I reconnected the battery and it turned over a little quicker and died. So now the battery is on charge and I set about tuning the engine over at the crank to see what was moving about to throw the belt. Where I had welded the inside of the old pulley into the the new one there were a few spots of weld that weren't quite flat. So I took a grinder to it...
...refitted it and the belt runs straight and true now.
Still slow turning though I think it could be because there's limited oil in the crank bearings where the engine has been put together and stood. I'll pop the spark plugs out and crank the engine over (hopefully faster) to get the oil flowing and then try to restart the car later.
Back to work tomorrow and my transition day is Tuesday so at least the battery will be fully charged by then.
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Mk 1 panel though isn't it..
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FrankenFiat CSI
Today I wanted to get to the bottom of my slow tuning hybrid engine issues so as promised I whipped the plugs out and turned the best over. Even with a little help from a friend...
...the engine turned a little faster but nowhere near as quick as it should be. I removed the cam' cover to see if oil was reaching the top half of the engine. Dry as a bone with only the grease I'd put in the cam' shims lubricating the top half of the engine.
What could cause this? Knackered oil pump, head gasket on the wrong way blocking the channels or the pick up pipe isn't long enough. I quickly took the head off to see if the gasket was the cause. Nope.
I connected the earth strap to the engine mount and turned it over again. Still slow and there was no oil from being blown out of the block at all. The bores are perfect and the crank bearings were fine when I put the sump on so it's either the pick up pipe or the pump.
The Fantasia was performing well so I tuned the engine off and set about replacing the cam cover gasket as it was losing a little oil and oil leaks are another flavor of the month with M.O.T testers.
Obviously I'd clean the cam cover while it was off.
Went to start the car and it was the same as before. Completely dead apart from the permanent live circuit (horn, clock, stereo and hazard lights). I put it off last time because it had fixed itself but there was no way to avoid it this time. I jacked the car up, took the terminal from the back of the starter motor, cleaned it, put it back on and tried again. Still nothing only this time when I touched the horn the entire dashboard lit up including fuel and temperature gauges. I tried the secondary earth strap from the red Panda. Same lack of result. Next I took the battery terminals off, cleaned those and put them back on after relocating the stereo earth. Still nothing. So I took the live terminals from the starter motor, cleaned them and as I was putting them back this...
...happened. :bang:
Just as well I have a couple of spare starter motors eh?
Where are scrap values at these days?
Today I wanted to get to the bottom of my slow tuning hybrid engine issues so as promised I whipped the plugs out and turned the best over. Even with a little help from a friend...
...the engine turned a little faster but nowhere near as quick as it should be. I removed the cam' cover to see if oil was reaching the top half of the engine. Dry as a bone with only the grease I'd put in the cam' shims lubricating the top half of the engine.
What could cause this? Knackered oil pump, head gasket on the wrong way blocking the channels or the pick up pipe isn't long enough. I quickly took the head off to see if the gasket was the cause. Nope.
I connected the earth strap to the engine mount and turned it over again. Still slow and there was no oil from being blown out of the block at all. The bores are perfect and the crank bearings were fine when I put the sump on so it's either the pick up pipe or the pump.
The Fantasia was performing well so I tuned the engine off and set about replacing the cam cover gasket as it was losing a little oil and oil leaks are another flavor of the month with M.O.T testers.
Obviously I'd clean the cam cover while it was off.
Went to start the car and it was the same as before. Completely dead apart from the permanent live circuit (horn, clock, stereo and hazard lights). I put it off last time because it had fixed itself but there was no way to avoid it this time. I jacked the car up, took the terminal from the back of the starter motor, cleaned it, put it back on and tried again. Still nothing only this time when I touched the horn the entire dashboard lit up including fuel and temperature gauges. I tried the secondary earth strap from the red Panda. Same lack of result. Next I took the battery terminals off, cleaned those and put them back on after relocating the stereo earth. Still nothing. So I took the live terminals from the starter motor, cleaned them and as I was putting them back this...
...happened. :bang:
Just as well I have a couple of spare starter motors eh?
Where are scrap values at these days?
that last photo with the apt crossword clues for a panda owner:
enclosed water (leaks/steel turning to rust)
worries (will it ever work)
savour (it when it does)
Toy (not as well made as one/size of one)
Poo (broken again)
enclosed water (leaks/steel turning to rust)
worries (will it ever work)
savour (it when it does)
Toy (not as well made as one/size of one)
Poo (broken again)
Where are scrap values at these days?
at my local scrap yard, its £30 to buy a starter, but if you swap your old broken one, its £15.
maybe there's no oil because the engine is not turning over fast enough...?
Bartpanda
Established member
oil-pump problems with fire engines are extremly rare, something is wrong though, any oil in the sump?
about the starter issues, I use 0.8kW starter from 1.0 in my 1242 8v, but it should be 0.9kW fot that engine, I have seen 1.1kW starters for 16v 1242ccm, for 1.4 liter fire it can be even stronger, maby that is your problem?
great idea to build your own engine from bits, I did the same with lampredi sohc 1.1 to 1.6 liter from 128 , ritmo, tipo etc..
about the starter issues, I use 0.8kW starter from 1.0 in my 1242 8v, but it should be 0.9kW fot that engine, I have seen 1.1kW starters for 16v 1242ccm, for 1.4 liter fire it can be even stronger, maby that is your problem?
great idea to build your own engine from bits, I did the same with lampredi sohc 1.1 to 1.6 liter from 128 , ritmo, tipo etc..
i have the 1.4l starter bolted to my panda.. because the previous owners had a bad filler cap, water got into the fuel and the engine would take a long time to start.
so quite literally the starter was that worn, the armature was loose and vibrated like hell when cranking.
so quite literally the starter was that worn, the armature was loose and vibrated like hell when cranking.
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So she's not turning over fast enough due to lack of oil because the engine's not turning over fast enough? :bang:
And that ladies and gentlemen is how the party politics system works.
I'm 90% sure it's the pick up pipe not being long enough. As the engine didn't come with one I adapted a Cinquecento one and hoped it would work.
Good spot with the cross word I was curious to see if anyone would notice.
heh i worded that wrong.. what i meant was maybe the oil pump is not turning fast enough to create a vacuum on the air inside the oil pickup that sits between the oil level and the pump.
and the crossword thing was epic! i did lol at that.
and the crossword thing was epic! i did lol at that.
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Fantasia
So; cause and effect.
Cause - Knackered starter motor.
Effect - The impression there is a major electrical fault with the car.
I think that when the relay was failing to actuate the gear in place the starter motor may have done more damage to itself. When testing this without load it was not apparent but when retrofitted to the car it was more apparent. Under stress the starter motor packed in creating a short that had me chasing around the wiring loom cleaning every terminal I could get to in the hope that it was a simple problem. Turns out it was a simple case of replacing the starter motor with the Cinquecento one and...
...fifteen stop and start tests later there are no issues whatsoever. Lucky the terminal sheered off as I'd still be chasing the problem around the loom now if not.
The first couple of starts there were interesting dashboard antics. Every light would come on and when I turned the lights on the fuel gauge would go to full and the temperature would skyrocket. This is typical Panda and was also temporary. Probably due to condensation on the headlight earth point. The horn uses the same point and when I tested that a few times (to my neighbors dismay) the other issues subsided.
Confident that the electrical gremlins have been exorcised (for now) I can think about the last of the M.O.T jobs.
This headlight...
...has passed the last five M.O.T's but I'm not happy with it and will have to go. There was no advisory sheet with the car when I bought her so all the stuff I have done has been purely from my own observations. As I'm not a qualified M.O.T tester I can't say if the car will pass or not but I can't see any reason why not. Apart from maybe putting a few miles on the new brakes perhaps. Oh and one of the tail light bulbs has burned out. It never ends!
So; cause and effect.
Cause - Knackered starter motor.
Effect - The impression there is a major electrical fault with the car.
I think that when the relay was failing to actuate the gear in place the starter motor may have done more damage to itself. When testing this without load it was not apparent but when retrofitted to the car it was more apparent. Under stress the starter motor packed in creating a short that had me chasing around the wiring loom cleaning every terminal I could get to in the hope that it was a simple problem. Turns out it was a simple case of replacing the starter motor with the Cinquecento one and...
...fifteen stop and start tests later there are no issues whatsoever. Lucky the terminal sheered off as I'd still be chasing the problem around the loom now if not.
The first couple of starts there were interesting dashboard antics. Every light would come on and when I turned the lights on the fuel gauge would go to full and the temperature would skyrocket. This is typical Panda and was also temporary. Probably due to condensation on the headlight earth point. The horn uses the same point and when I tested that a few times (to my neighbors dismay) the other issues subsided.
Confident that the electrical gremlins have been exorcised (for now) I can think about the last of the M.O.T jobs.
This headlight...
...has passed the last five M.O.T's but I'm not happy with it and will have to go. There was no advisory sheet with the car when I bought her so all the stuff I have done has been purely from my own observations. As I'm not a qualified M.O.T tester I can't say if the car will pass or not but I can't see any reason why not. Apart from maybe putting a few miles on the new brakes perhaps. Oh and one of the tail light bulbs has burned out. It never ends!
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Fantasia
So today I gave the car a couple of successful test starts and booked the M.O.T for tomorrow afternoon!
I needed to get the tail light bulb changed...
..or so I thought. As soon as I opened the cluster the bloody thing started working.
I took the bulb out, cleaned it and put it back in just to be sure.
So to the front of the car. Take the spare wheel and jack out; then undo the 10mm nut that holds the washer bottle in place and move it to one side...
...so you can remove the harness and undo the three 8mm nuts that are holding the headlight in place.
Lucky this isn't J-tuner otherwise I'd be sticking an air filter there.
Once off you need to strip the indicator assembly, sidelight, loom and terminals...
...this can be problematic when the plastic headed screws have reacted to twenty or so years of Ultra Violet radiation. There are different methods of getting these screws out, some use a dremmel and small cutting disc, some make a small pilot hole and stud extractor, some use a hammer; personally I heat the end of a flat screw driver up enough to make a grove and unscrew it that way.
Plan A; remove the headlight from the red Panda and swap indicator lenses. Simple eh?
Snap!
Snap!
Crack!
Bugger!
Plan B get the spare headlight with the dis-attached reflector, smash the lens from the Fantasia headlight and use the lens from the spare.
Going well. This could actually work.
SMASH!!![big]
One finger has a chunk the size of a five Pence piece missing the other needs a few stitches. Haven't got time for that fuss so for the rest of the operation I was wearing a couple of plasters and a pair or marigold gloves with the cuff secured with rubber bands to stop the blood leaking.
Plan C; the same as Plan B but using the lens from the red Panda. This time using a cutting disc instead of grinding the plastic back.
Success! :slayer:
So I carefully smashed the Fantasia lens up and scraped the crap out of the channel as much as possible before cleaning...
...the joys of single life eh guys?
Top tip for you here. Use the cheapest washing up liquid you can find as the one that leave your skin as soft as your bum have moisturisers that can leave smears on your lens and/or reflectors.
Well I was wearing marigolds.
All clean and dry ready for Tiger seal (by a different name)...
...and reassembly...
...another couple of top tips for you, I used a hair drier on a low heat setting to make sure there wasn't any moisture in the channel and a bit of WD40 on the reflector to get rid of the smears and protect the surface from condensation later.
Good as new-ish.
Just need to leave it somewhere warm, dry and safe until the morning...
...and the Fantasia is ready for M.O.T
Gulp!
Not to take anything away from my overwhelming sense of achievement today, but I had an idea, it worked and I only lost half a pint of blood.
Like Brain Warner once sang...
"Whatever doesn't kill you is gonna leave a scar". :slayer:
So today I gave the car a couple of successful test starts and booked the M.O.T for tomorrow afternoon!
I needed to get the tail light bulb changed...
..or so I thought. As soon as I opened the cluster the bloody thing started working.
I took the bulb out, cleaned it and put it back in just to be sure.
So to the front of the car. Take the spare wheel and jack out; then undo the 10mm nut that holds the washer bottle in place and move it to one side...
...so you can remove the harness and undo the three 8mm nuts that are holding the headlight in place.
Lucky this isn't J-tuner otherwise I'd be sticking an air filter there.
Once off you need to strip the indicator assembly, sidelight, loom and terminals...
...this can be problematic when the plastic headed screws have reacted to twenty or so years of Ultra Violet radiation. There are different methods of getting these screws out, some use a dremmel and small cutting disc, some make a small pilot hole and stud extractor, some use a hammer; personally I heat the end of a flat screw driver up enough to make a grove and unscrew it that way.
Plan A; remove the headlight from the red Panda and swap indicator lenses. Simple eh?
Snap!
Snap!
Crack!
Bugger!
Plan B get the spare headlight with the dis-attached reflector, smash the lens from the Fantasia headlight and use the lens from the spare.
Going well. This could actually work.
SMASH!!![big]
One finger has a chunk the size of a five Pence piece missing the other needs a few stitches. Haven't got time for that fuss so for the rest of the operation I was wearing a couple of plasters and a pair or marigold gloves with the cuff secured with rubber bands to stop the blood leaking.
Plan C; the same as Plan B but using the lens from the red Panda. This time using a cutting disc instead of grinding the plastic back.
Success! :slayer:
So I carefully smashed the Fantasia lens up and scraped the crap out of the channel as much as possible before cleaning...
...the joys of single life eh guys?
Top tip for you here. Use the cheapest washing up liquid you can find as the one that leave your skin as soft as your bum have moisturisers that can leave smears on your lens and/or reflectors.
Well I was wearing marigolds.
All clean and dry ready for Tiger seal (by a different name)...
...and reassembly...
...another couple of top tips for you, I used a hair drier on a low heat setting to make sure there wasn't any moisture in the channel and a bit of WD40 on the reflector to get rid of the smears and protect the surface from condensation later.
Good as new-ish.
Just need to leave it somewhere warm, dry and safe until the morning...
...and the Fantasia is ready for M.O.T
Gulp!
Not to take anything away from my overwhelming sense of achievement today, but I had an idea, it worked and I only lost half a pint of blood.
Like Brain Warner once sang...
"Whatever doesn't kill you is gonna leave a scar". :slayer:
Re: Fantasia
good job man, and good luck!
heh i got Talon on the road so you should have no issue.
im gluing the two prop shaft bearings together using tiger seal.. it may work.. it may not.. but i am still going to use a jubilee clip on it. got to get it done before the snow!
hehe single life
good job man, and good luck
!heh i got Talon on the road so you should have no issue.
im gluing the two prop shaft bearings together using tiger seal.. it may work.. it may not.. but i am still going to use a jubilee clip on it. got to get it done before the snow!
hehe single life
Who'd have thought a faulty starter motor could cause so much grief
And a headlight glass so much damage!
Good luck with the mot
And a headlight glass so much damage!
Good luck with the mot
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Fantasia
I was expecting a fail or more advisories than the career of Marshal Mathers III but we got neither.
Many thanks to Lee from Kwik Fit Corby for superb professional service and accepting a Jaffa Cake based bribe.
Now I have a slow running jet issue to solve.
I was expecting a fail or more advisories than the career of Marshal Mathers III but we got neither.
Many thanks to Lee from Kwik Fit Corby for superb professional service and accepting a Jaffa Cake based bribe.
Now I have a slow running jet issue to solve.
