General Panda Raid Morocco

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General Panda Raid Morocco

Hey guys,

Not a huge amount to add to the above by my bro and I are entering the March 2017 rally. We have no car mechanic experience but are learning on the job :D.

So far we've fixed some rust, removed the back seats, renovated the interior and fixed some odd jobs. Next items on our list:

- Find some cheap bucket racing seats
- Fit a snorkel (rather than drilling a hole in the body of the car we found we can use one of the vents above the bonnet)
- Fit a rev counter
- Cool paint job
- Tint the windows
- Rally lights

I'd strongly recommend watching the Wheeler Dealers Panda 4x4 episode - very useful tips.

Look forward to sharing a beer in the desert with some of you!

Alastair
 
Hey,

First let me introduce Leonarda, a beautiful 1993 Fiat Panda 1000 Fizz, in all her green(ish) greatness.

Technically she'll take us all they way to Morocco for week long adventure, if she survives London to Madrid :D

We have a huuuuge to-do list, and we are hoping to add some tutorials (with Pics) along the way. We will do our best to document the whole process with as much info as possible, just in case anyone is crazy enough to try this again in the future.
-Sump guard
-RUST, and the associated holes :(
-Bonnet clamps, it does tend to stick closed, so we'll probably remove the locking mech.
-Copy of the keys, we currently have a single set of 4 keys; divers door, ignition, boot and petrol cap. None for the passengers door...
-Load separator :bang:
-DIY tripmaster with bicycle computer
-Additional radiator fan
-Snorkle
-Increase ride height, nylon disks on top of the springs?
-Find 13” offroad tires
-Find 5x 13” panda Steel wheels. We are currently using some cinquecento sporting alloys that came with the car.
-2kg fire extinguisher and mount
-20l gas can
-RPM
-Spot lights
-General service
-Roof rack
-Install USB ports, to change phones/cameras… during the rally

Hopefully we can make use of all your combined experience.

At the moment we are really struggling with the wheels, does anyone know where we may get 5 of them in good condition around the Milton Keynes/London area?

Juan and Manu
 
If I were you I'd go for 14's on the wheel front, less chance of falling down a pothole with a slightly larger wheel. That way you could pick up 4 steelies from any low-end mk2 Punto in a scrappy?

Have you ever driven a car in 2 - 3inch deep soft sand of cement feel for more than few miles?
999cc would struggle a lot on 14".
 
We have a huuuuge to-do list:


-Sump guard, yes
-RUST, and the associated holes :(
-Bonnet clamps, it does tend to stick closed, so we'll probably remove the locking mech. - just attached piece of wire directly to the latch and route it through the grill.
-Copy of the keys, we currently have a single set of 4 keys; divers door, ignition, boot and petrol cap. None for the passengers door...


-Load separator - if you will have well organized boot/ load space simple dog mesh should give enough protection.


-DIY tripmaster with bicycle computer - is it necessary?


-Additional radiator fan - yes, bigger rad would be ideal.


-Snorkle - Air intake pre-filter will be enough, it is only dust you guys should be concern.


-Increase ride height, nylon disks on top of the springs? Pair of std 4x4 springs (i'v got some) would give decent lift at the front, for the rear go on to the scarp yards and get few CityRover rear coil springs.


-Find 13” offroad tires - yes, but don't go crazy as there is bulk of red hot tarmac sections on your way as well. Fedima Winter M+S, HP10 or F4 depend on your budget.


-Find 5x 13” panda Steel wheels. We are currently using some cinquecento sporting alloys that came with the car. if you will go for 155 tyres the seicento steel wheels would be good.


-2kg fire extinguisher and mount
-20l gas can - bloody big bottle mate, at least 35kg extra weigh - look for Coleman bi-fuel cooker.
-RPM - yes
-Spot lights - led once only to keep the Alternator load down ( pm me in needed)
-General service - yes,


-Roof rack - yes, but make sure it is bolted/ attached to the roof frame not only to the flat plate.
-Install USB ports, to change phones/cameras… during the rally - don't go cheap on this.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys (y)

northernchap said:
Might be cheaper to just buy this for spares, seems to have decent wheels and tyres fitted

I am actually watching that sisley on e-bay, it it goes for an absurdly cheap price we may even consider it. I'm not sure I can bring myself to brake up a 4x4

Kolza, thanks for the ideas


-Bonnet clamps, it does tend to stick closed, so we'll probably remove the locking mech. - just attached piece of wire directly to the latch and route it through the grill.
*We will try your approach. But as the bonnet wobbles about a lot when closed, and these are only £10, I think we will stick them on just in case.

-Load separator - if you will have well organized boot/ load space simple dog mesh should give enough protection.
*That is more or less the plan, I'll post whatever we come up with.

-DIY tripmaster with bicycle computer - is it necessary?
*I think we are not allowed GPS, and the we are supposed to follow a roadbook in km, with an accuracy of 50m. We could probably live without it, but I think it'll make our life a lot easier if we have it.

-Additional radiator fan - yes, bigger rad would be ideal.
*Has anyone seen this done before? I have no idea how difficult it'll be, and how much it would cost..

-Snorkel - Air intake pre-filter will be enough, it is only dust you guys should be concern.
* We were thinking of using a cyclonic pre-filter (from a tractor) and also that the further away from the ground, the least amount of dust it'll have to deal with.Hence the snorkel.

-Increase ride height, nylon disks on top of the springs? Pair of std 4x4 springs (i'v got some) would give decent lift at the front, for the rear go on to the scarp yards and get few CityRover rear coil springs.
*I din't know the 4x4 srpings were longer, we'll probably take those of your hands, and go to a scrappy for the others.

-Find 13” offroad tires - yes, but don't go crazy as there is bulk of red hot tarmac sections on your way as well. Fedima Winter M+S, HP10 or F4 depend on your budget.
*Do you know where we may find these in the UK? I know you can order them from fedima directly, but postage may blow our budget.

Didge3 said:
If I were you I'd go for 14's on the wheel front
*We are limited to 13" by the organization, if we could we would definetly try it.

-Find 5x 13” panda Steel wheels. We are currently using some cinquecento sporting alloys that came with the car. if you will go for 155 tyres the seicento steel wheels would be good.
*Would 155 fit? we are running 165, and they stick out sides quite a bit. I'm sure if we bottom out we'll hit the bodywork...
And thanks for the pointer, I thought the Cinquecento was one of the few models with equivalent wheels.


-20l gas can - bloody big bottle mate, at least 35kg extra weigh - look for Coleman bi-fuel cooker.
*Sorry, I meant petrol can, an organization requirement.

-Spot lights - led once only to keep the Alternator load down ( pm me in needed)
*we are looking at something like this:
20 Inch 126W CREE LED Spot Flood Combo Work Light Bar Offroad SUV Truck 4WD: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike (from amazon. can't post urls, sorry)
What do you have to offer, kolza?


-Roof rack - yes, but make sure it is bolted/ attached to the roof frame not only to the flat plate.
*Thanks, we will do
 
That 4x4 from link above might need serious workload to be able to withstand such a trip - 4x4 more things which can go wrong.

-Bonnet clamps, *We will try your approach. But as the bonnet wobbles about a lot when closed, and these are only £10, I think we will stick them on just in case. Try to unscrew by 1/2 turn both rubber bump stop at each front corner.

-Additional radiator fan - yes, bigger rad would be ideal.
*Has anyone seen this done before? I have no idea how difficult it'll be, and how much it would cost.. This would have to by DIY job, so appropriate size and correct water in/outlet positions would have to be matched.

-Increase ride height, *I din't know the 4x4 srpings were longer, we'll probably take those of your hands, and go to a scrappy for the others.
Yes, they are 19 mm longer and the rod is just over 1mm thicker so your looking easily 20-30mm lift.
With the rear coils: CityRover are the first from right, correct diameter but you will have to cut it to suit your height, make sure the weight is in the boot while checking.
2015-12-19_14-50-20_413.jpg



They are dual-rate springs so the coils with smaller pitch are normally almost closed giving better comfort at bumpy road. IIRC i've cut 2 coils from top to match std 2wd heigh. Std 2wd coil is 268mm long, 111mm dia, and 10.5mm rod.
IMG_3515.JPG





-Find 13” offroad tires -Do you know where we may find these in the UK? I know you can order them from fedima directly, but postage may blow our budget.
TyresDirect is Fedima dealer for UK, but they don't stock 13" fedima's at all, so your looking at 2-3 weeks and price wise TD was £20 more expensive so I've dealt with German dealer company https://www.fedima.de/de-pkw-reifen-winter-ms-WMS-1314580-Fedima-Winter-MS.html first class service, delivery within few days and shipping cost same as TD.

-Spot lights -*we are looking at something like this:
Can't beat that one.
 
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We could do with some feedback off Si pandamonius_maximus on the Trac tyres that he used on Panda raid.

Ideally with soft sand you should be looking at width rather than thinner with nobbles like we use for mud. The wider the tyre the better as it spreads the weight allowing you to ride on top of the sand rather than digging in like you would require for mud.

I'd personally advise getting some MK3 Panda 13" rims (5J or 5.5J) for the front wheels and looking for some 165 width tyres.
 
Hi there, I can help with some advice hopefully. I will cast my mind back to a most epic and slightly stessful car prep stage which involved me doing an engine swap!! (going for a dramatic setting) :devil:

So yes wheels and tyres are pretty critical. I used Malatesta Traks which come in 13" 145R size and I had very little trouble in sand with them. The benefit I had was inner tubes, so I could drop tyre pressures down without too much risk of wheel / tyre separation. That helped spread the load but tbh, it did reasonably well even with normal tyre pressures. 4wd + knobly tyres and a light weight car is a winning combination in the desert! :D

The thing with the malatesta traks is how deep the tread is. It is like having paddles...I only got stuck once in the sand with them and that was because I forgot to put it in 4wd :eek:...and we were rescued before we realised this! But everyone helps out on this rally.

So I don't know if later pandas had inner tubes in the 4x4? Mine is a mk1 (<1986).

Another thing to be careful with is wheels size. Some of the teams fitted big tyres (rules seem fairly relaxed on this) and they had issues with their wheels rubbing on their fuel filler pipes...leading to significant fuel leaks! So I would stick to 13s unless you check that nothing can possibly rub in the arch. Also bear in mind that you'll be quite heavily laden with spares, tools, and supplies and charity stuff (for the first half) and the car will be riding much lower than you might expect! On that note, if I were to do it again I would make sure I packed even lighter than I did. I was on bump stops and the wheels were rubbing on the arch at the back.

Also Andy ( AndyPanda4x4 ) I think you can vouch for 14" and 1 litre engine being a bit of a pain for the steep rock climb bits. You lose a lot of torque with the larger wheels it must be said! So leave 13" on I think unless you are upgrading to punto 1.2 engine! You get a small ride height lift from using the malatestas as the tyres are a little bigger on the rolling radius.

Here is a link to our Panda Raid facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/PandaRaid2014CharityRally/

and here is the preparations I did:
https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/200730-mk1-4x4-panda-original-5.html

Sounds like you've got everything else nicely under way though anyway.

A radiator fan switch is a good idea, so you can leave the fan on for steep and slow rock climbs which can overheat the engine.

Sump guard is a definite must, I modified mine quite a bit out there! But I would be careful that it doesn't block too much air flow to the engine...I might have done this and have to run a little warmer...it did keep the water splashes nicely out the engine bay though!

Photo1476.jpg


blocking out the rear windows made it much cooler inside but visibility was poor it must be said and did feel a bit dangerous especially when driving back through spain while very tired!

Anyway, most importantly have fun but don't go for a speed record. The cars which did that were bodging and fixing all evening at the stopping points and missed out on lots of the evening socials. Had some cars which snapped their rear leaf springs, shattered engine mounts, and one car went for a jump off a small cliff and snapped the chassis! Having said that there are some fast bits and they are huge fun! driving right in the middle of the desert with Pandas and Marbellas criss-crossing all over the place. Just have to keep a look out as sometimes it can be smooth for a while and then you hit hidden rocks and bumps under the sand. I had 1 puncture because of this...

Look forward to following your adventure anyway. I will definitely do this again sometime! :cool:
 
Hi,
We have a bit of a problem. We've just found out that our insurance company, admiral, will not provide an international insurance certificate (green card) for Morocco.
We know that neither Aviva or Adrian flux will cover Morocco, and HIC are not responding...
I was hoping that one of you guys may be able to point us in the right direction.
According to the organization, no green card = no race

Thanks
 
None will cover "rally" either.
I've use company called "PDF editor" in the past and it worked a thread in Mongolia.
It down to you, with so many mods done to the car they will find reason whatsoever.
 
Hi there,

We had issues getting the green card as well. Took a lot of digging around but only one company would help. But it was expensive, and also they kept making mistakes with the policy which would have rendered the policy void.

"Be wiser" insurance (but it really pains me to recommend them), it was £800 or more for the policy and to save some money we cancelled the policy as soon as we got back which and received a 30% admin charge. But they sent us a green card for Morocco. It won't cover a charity rally though, only for the road driving bit. So don't bother asking them for cover, just tell them you are going on holiday to Morocco which will cover you for an road bits. It's all dodgy though as if they dug around probably could tell you were involved in the rally and void the policy.

Hope that helps!

Si
 
We had already tried HCI with no luck. But we may have found a kind insurer from Spain, for £60 will provide a green card for 10 days.
Seguropordias.com
They were quite helpful, the only catch is that you need to have a Spanish ID card.
Thanks for all the help guys.
 
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