Technical Panda Cross 2010 Fuse Box

[hairybiker84]

I am trying to confirm connections to the main under bonnet fuse box but have been unable to find a match on the elearn site for the wires actually installed any ideas?
Many thanks in advance.

 

[koalar]

inconclusive

And to be diagnostic it does have to be while it's failing

But at least we have one reference as a starting place

While the yellow arrow should be over 200 rpm

The red arrow should be over 300 bar 4351 psi

Unfortunately with the quick start there's only two data points

Probably better graphing as bad to get the scale better or graph one above each other so the auto scale does not effect the results

 

[hairybiker84]

inconclusive

And to be diagnostic it does have to be while it's failing

But at least we have one reference as a starting place

While the yellow arrow should be over 200 rpm

The red arrow should be over 300 bar 4351 psi

Unfortunately with the quick start there's only two data points

Probably better graphing as bad to get the scale better or graph one above each other so the auto scale does not effect the results

View attachment 469320

The one I did this morning (which took longer to start), the engine was cold and I saw 315 ish bar and 198 ish rpm. Not sure I've ever seen over 200rpm cranking.
I've bought the Torque app but when I scroll through parameters to record it looks like the vast majority are not available.

 

[hairybiker84]

inconclusive

And to be diagnostic it does have to be while it's failing

But at least we have one reference as a starting place

While the yellow arrow should be over 200 rpm

The red arrow should be over 300 bar 4351 psi

Unfortunately with the quick start there's only two data points

Probably better graphing as bad to get the scale better or graph one above each other so the auto scale does not effect the results

View attachment 469320

Looking at the Car Scanner app which seems to have a much better way of recording and then displaying the results that Torque.
With regards initial setup the Panda isn't listed. It says "select basic OBD-II / EOBD which shows only basic OBD-II sensors if your car isn't listed" will this display enough information?.

 

[koalar]

Looking at the Car Scanner app which seems to have a much better way of recording and then displaying the results that Torque.
With regards initial setup the Panda isn't listed. It says "select basic OBD-II / EOBD which shows only basic OBD-II sensors if your car isn't listed" will this display enough information?.

Yes

I use both, both are fine on my phone, although on a petrol panda

Also look at the MAF airflow

There is a vacuum operated flap that shuts of the air it stop the engine running on

I can't remember good and bad values but there's about a 30% difference, if it sticks closed

Normally just needs a clean, not replacement

 

[hairybiker84]

Downloaded and attempted recording with the Car Scanner app. Display of fuel pressure and rpm doesn't seem to start until engine running so not much use! Looked through the app guides online but not found anything obvious to help - any ideas?

Where is this vacuum operated flap, can see a description of it.

 

[koalar]

Jus a quick reply as I am out and about

Look from the 30 minute mark

 

[hairybiker84]

That makes sense - I'll try and have a look over the weekend.

 

[koalar]

There's lots of reasons for random none start

A high percentage are fuel related, mostly due to the filter sucking in air, HP pump seals gone or worn, or not turning fast enough to make the pressure to atomize the fuel properly, with a few EGR thrown in when the engine is cold

Which is why with an intermittent fault it's important to get a snapshot of some data as it's failing

As in the video above the clue was in the MAF reading which lead to a repair that didn't require any new parts, although an unusual fault I can guarantee most people would have thrown a lot of unnecessary parts at it first


Taking a scattered gun approach can get expensive it's not unknown for several pumps, turbos, injectors to be changed and the original fault to persist


Car scanner and torque both record data from ignition on my petrol panda

Here's an example of mine

Ignition on, cranking and idling

Car scanner

Around 5 samples per second isn't great but adequate for most faults to show

 

[hairybiker84]

There's lots of reasons for random none start

A high percentage are fuel related, mostly due to the filter sucking in air, HP pump seals gone or worn, or not turning fast enough to make the pressure to atomize the fuel properly, with a few EGR thrown in when the engine is cold

Which is why with an intermittent fault it's important to get a snapshot of some data as it's failing

As in the video above the clue was in the MAF reading which lead to a repair that didn't require any new parts, although an unusual fault I can guarantee most people would have thrown a lot of unnecessary parts at it first


Taking a scattered gun approach can get expensive it's not unknown for several pumps, turbos, injectors to be changed and the original fault to persist


Car scanner and torque both record data from ignition on my petrol panda

Here's an example of mine

Ignition on, cranking and idling

Car scanner

Around 5 samples per second isn't great but adequate for most faults to show

View attachment 469756

Unfortunately I have yet to actually record the thing misbehaving. I thought Car Scanner was all primed and doing it's stuff until I actually looked at the recording - it would have been the ideal occasion as it took a good few seconds to go and has a little half-hearted attemp to start in the middle too - just like on that youtube video. Next restart it went straight away, and the one after that. I've seen no issues with pump pressure, pretty much straight up - unless there's an issue with Intermittent pressure regulation, I can't see it being the hp pump. Cranking speed always sounds about the same but sometimes it fires up straight away, sometimes not

 

[hairybiker84]

At long last I have caught it in the act. Wouldn't start yesterday and I had my code reader in the car (Icarsoft CRPro). It doesn't do graphs but I recorded the readings of the Battery Voltage, Engine Speed, Diesel Pressure and Air Mass. Note intermittent Engine Speed and Air Mass coupled with fluctuating fuel pressure. I have had a couple of issues with the car not seeing the MAF sensor (which is a new Bosch one).

 

[koalar]

At long last I have caught it in the act. Wouldn't start yesterday and I had my code reader in the car (Icarsoft CRPro). It doesn't do graphs but I recorded the readings of the Battery Voltage, Engine Speed, Diesel Pressure and Air Mass. Note intermittent Engine Speed and Air Mass coupled with fluctuating fuel pressure. I have had a couple of issues with the car not seeing the MAF sensor (which is a new Bosch one).

Out and about at the moment, tried a few times

But can only see a blank page unfortunately

 

[hairybiker84]

Out and about at the moment, tried a few times

But can only see a blank page unfortunately

That'll teach me to check attachments!
Try this one.

 

[hairybiker84]

I have also checked through the other control units for stored codes and there are more;
C1003 Intermittent - Vehicle speed (from CAN).
C1004 Intermittent - Alternator

 

[hairybiker84]

Out and about at the moment, tried a few times

But can only see a blank page unfortunately

Did you have a look at the new pdf? Any ideas?

 

[koalar]

Doesn't make sense

You can't have 0 RPM and 176 bar

Then 187 RPM and 56 bar in the next frame

It's unlikely both RPM and fuel pressure are out

Looks more like a diagnostice logging issue to me

 

[hairybiker84]

View attachment 471739

Doesn't make sense

You can't have 0 RPM and 176 bar

Then 187 RPM and 56 bar in the next frame

It's unlikely both RPM and fuel pressure are out

Looks more like a diagnostice logging issue to me

The way I read it is that the fuel pressure regulator is being commanded (or not as the case may be) causing the fluctuating fuel pressure. The rpm is obviously related. The logging is fine normally, this is only the second occasion of catching it not starting. I wasn't recording the first but noticed the fuel pressure fluctuating, unfortunately I wasn't taking notice of the rpm.
What can cause loss of rpm signal - if it's only the crankshaft sensor or wiring would thus also cause the fuel pressure to be commanded low? The starter motor was cranking fine so can't see engine earth being an issue.