Technical Panda 750 CLX - Head Gasket blown

[alterlego]

Hi everybody:


I`m trying to fix the panda`s blown head gasket tomorrow, cause i`ts to hot today here in Porto-Portugal, and i`m working in the sun(bought a PAYEN - 36 euro), but...

- i`m not sure if i can re-use the same bolts (have a rather small budget) and i just purchased a "dinamometric" wrench (excuse my poor english).

My other doubt is:
- How can i measure if the head distortion is within builders specifications (glup, very poor english... sorry) is there any trick i can use???

Me and my flaming red Pandastic appreciate any input u could give us

Thanks a million

 

[arc]

you can reuse the headbolts, but only once.

to check the head is flat, you could use a metal ruler and hold its edge flat to the head and check it that way.

i just purchased a "dinamometric" wrench (excuse my poor english).

correct english would be "torque wrench"

 

[alterlego]

you can reuse the headbolts, but only once.
to check the head is flat, you could use a metal ruler and hold its edge flat to the head and check it that way.
correct english would be "torque wrench"

Wow... that is fast, i appreciate your answer, this way i`ll start the job Without delay.
I`ll report back with some pics... maybe a DIY with photos... (i wish... but im not that good, ill take lot of pics of the job instead)

U`re the best... thanks for helping me!!!

Cheers

AlterLego and the pandastic flaming red

 

[dave]

i always skim even if it looks flat, you get a nice clean surface then.

if you don't know if the bolts have been out before or if engine has overheated don't reuse them.
over heating can make the bolts stretch even if they have only been used once

 

[alterlego]

i always skim even if it looks flat, you get a nice clean surface then.
if you don't know if the bolts have been out before or if engine has overheated don't reuse them.
over heating can make the bolts stretch even if they have only been used once

Hi dave:

Well i`m sure the car overheated, cause the red "too late light" was on once, with the previous owner. He didnt change the gasket, and the car rolled for a year and now has blown in my hands last saturday (the too late light didnt come on this time).
So, skim the head is a must and new bolts also, right?

Ok Thanks Dave

I`ll Be Back (with panda photos but no Humvee)

 

[dave]

imo it is

 

[Plug]

you can reuse the headbolts, but only once.

to check the head is flat, you could use a metal ruler and hold its edge flat to the head and check it that way.



correct english would be "torque wrench"

I doubt you'd see the distortion with a straight edge - if you could, throw the head in the bin!

You'd at least need a dial gauge (think they only took a few thou off mine when it was skimmed) and that kind of implies putting it on a machine anyway - while it's up, stick a facemill in and skim it!

Alterlego, your English is much much better than my Portuguese! Can you take apart and rebuild the cylinder head yourself? If you can, rather than ask at a garage for the head to be skimmed, you should try and find a precision engineers shop that could do it for you. Garages fix cars, all they will do with a cylinder head is send it to an engineers and charge you extra.

Good luck with your Panda!

Cheers,

Plug

 

[Chas Uno]

I doubt you'd see the distortion with a straight edge - if you could, throw the head in the bin!

You'd use the straight edge in conjunction with feeler gauges

I do agree though, if you could see head distortion with a straight edge then it's most definitely scrap!

 

[aca]

Can you take apart and rebuild the cylinder head yourself? If you can, rather than ask at a garage for the head to be skimmed, you should try and find a precision engineers shop that could do it for you. Garages fix cars, all they will do with a cylinder head is send it to an engineers and charge you extra.Good luck with your Panda!Cheers,
Plug

Hi Alterlego! I agree with Plug. You should try to get a quote from some garage or engeneers in Porto. If cylinder head needs to be flattened, thats not DIY work - without expensive machinery and adequate skills for that!!!
Once upone a time on the front line - we need to flatten cylinder head onto our Pintzgauer. We use candels from church, so when we disasemble cylinder head we put candel light under head surface to have candel snuff onto the head surface. Then we put heavy metal ruler onto candel-snuffed head surface and slide ruler over whole head surface. That method show us all places with or without snuff onto head surface and tells us where deformation is in + or in -. (``horror`` - Marlon Brando in Apocalypse-Now).
I hope this candel-snuff-war method will be usefull for you if Porto garage is overpriced. Here in Belgrade, compleete cylinder head intervention with gasket change and head surface work is abt 90 EUR for Panda 1.1MPI.
Cheers all,
Aca

 

[Plug]

Hi Alterlego! I agree with Plug. You should try to get a quote from some garage or engeneers in Porto. If cylinder head needs to be flattened, thats not DIY work - without expensive machinery and adequate skills for that!!!
Once upone a time on the front line - we need to flatten cylinder head onto our Pintzgauer. We use candels from church, so when we disasemble cylinder head we put candel light under head surface to have candel snuff onto the head surface. Then we put heavy metal ruler onto candel-snuffed head surface and slide ruler over whole head surface. That method show us all places with or without snuff onto head surface and tells us where deformation is in + or in -. (``horror`` - Marlon Brando in Apocalypse-Now).
I hope this candel-snuff-war method will be usefull for you if Porto garage is overpriced. Here in Belgrade, compleete cylinder head intervention with gasket change and head surface work is abt 90 EUR for Panda 1.1MPI.
Cheers all,
Aca

That's very clever, Aca. War is bad but it makes you resourceful.

The Pinzgauer is an excellent vehicle. Shall we have a poll as to which is best - Pinzgauer or Panda 4x4?

Cheers,

Plug

 

[aca]

The Pinzgauer is an excellent vehicle. Shall we have a poll as to which is best - Pinzgauer or Panda 4x4?

Cheers,

Plug

Hi Plug,
PANDA 4x4 is better on any terrain condition!!!! Pintz is good, but Panda 4x4 is better. (Only Lada Niva 4x4 can be competetive on bad terrain to Panda 4x4), but Pintz and Lada consume enormous quantity of fuel, so Panda wins anyway.......From my experiance small distance between front and rear axel onto Panda is main preference.....
Cheers,
Aca

 

[sutjeska]

Aca, do you have this Pinzgauer or was is an army vehicle?

Sutjeska

BTW: our trip to Serbia in August is making real. We had a meet last weekend and I discussed this project with my friends. At least three Pandas wants to go.

 

[aca]

Aca, do you have this Pinzgauer or was is an army vehicle?

Sutjeska

BTW: our trip to Serbia in August is making real. We had a meet last weekend and I discussed this project with my friends. At least three Pandas wants to go.

Hi Sutjeska,
This is an Army wehicle.......but I use them actively on 1999 for 4 months period onto Fruska Gora Mountain near Novi Sad. Its good, but consume 18 to 20 lit/100Km....(I will try to put some war pic here)

BTW: I am glad to hear news abt Polish trip to Romania, and passing Serbia onto way back).
*(Also I hope you refund money for wind diffusors from Marek???)
**(Did Marek finish Panda-Van - Camping conversion???)
Greetings from Serbian Pandafreaks....
Aca

 

[sutjeska]

Hi Aca!

Of course, I have money for deflectors, everything is OK.
Marek was in Ukraine recently, so he didn't have time to work on Panda. But, it is possible that he will be in Serbia in the end of June or beginning of July, on a way back from Syria. His next trip will be: Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Syria, Greece, Montenegro, Albania, Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia. In VW California. He'll make you know when he'll be sure about arrival to Serbia.

Sutjeska

 

[aca]

His next trip will be: Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Syria, Greece, Montenegro, Albania, Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia. In VW California. He'll make you know when he'll be sure about arrival to Serbia.
Sutjeska

Well, Sutjeska, then, everything its OK.
Marek really can`t stay onto one place for a minute!!!!!

Please let me know when he will be here again and give my regards to all VW - Polish cabin crew!!!!!!

Cheers!
Aca

 

[alterlego]

Hi Alterlego! I agree with Plug. You should try to get a quote from some garage or engeneers in Porto. If cylinder head needs to be flattened, thats not DIY work - without expensive machinery and adequate skills for that!!!
Once upone a time on the front line - we need to flatten cylinder head onto our Pintzgauer. We use candels from church, so when we disasemble cylinder head we put candel light under head surface to have candel snuff onto the head surface. Then we put heavy metal ruler onto candel-snuffed head surface and slide ruler over whole head surface. That method show us all places with or without snuff onto head surface and tells us where deformation is in + or in -. (``horror`` - Marlon Brando in Apocalypse-Now).
I hope this candel-snuff-war method will be usefull for you if Porto garage is overpriced. Here in Belgrade, compleete cylinder head intervention with gasket change and head surface work is abt 90 EUR for Panda 1.1MPI.
Cheers all,
Aca

Thanks Aca:
That is quite engenius (is that a word???).
I just phoned a engineers shop, and they will skim the head for 30 euros.
New bolts 25 euros.
Head gasket Kit 36 euros.
oil+filter+coolant 30 euros.
Total = 121 euros

Im ready to go, now that i`ve got the torque wrench + camera document the work.

I have only one last question (well two questions) i took out already the cylinder head out (this is what needs to be flatten, right?
or does the cylinder block surface needs to be flatten also) and how should i clean the inside of the cylinder block/crankase?
its full of mayonese, is there any product to do this?

and bad things got worse cause i cant unscrew the damn oil sump drain plug... right now im working, but later i ll resume the head gasket job and post some pics.

Thanks again for helping me.

 

[aca]

Thanks Aca:
That is quite engenius (is that a word???).
I just phoned a engineers shop, and they will skim the head for 30 euros.
New bolts 25 euros.
Head gasket Kit 36 euros.
oil+filter+coolant 30 euros.
Total = 121 euros

Im ready to go, now that i`ve got the torque wrench + camera document the work.

I have only one last question (well two questions) i took out already the cylinder head out (this is what needs to be flatten, right?
or does the cylinder block surface needs to be flatten also) and how should i clean the inside of the cylinder block/crankase?
its full of mayonese, is there any product to do this?

and bad things got worse cause i cant unscrew the damn oil sump drain plug... right now im working, but later i ll resume the head gasket job and post some pics.

Thanks again for helping me.

Hi Alterlego, Im not so sure that we understood compleetely about terms of ``cylinder head`` and ``cylinder block``.
So best way is to cearfully read Guide section on this site and Cinquecento section - specially Guide for head gasket.
Here is LINK: https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento-guides/136702-cylinder-head-gasket-remove-refit.html

I hope lot of things will be usefull for you bechause engine should be very similar to Panda.

For your problem with oil sump drainer bolt I suggest the following:
Use a lot of WD40 spray, and wait few minutes. Lot of people use overbolting force when screw this bolt. Right force is to screw very light just to moment to feel resistance, and then turn 1/4 of full circle. That should bee enought. But if somebody before you tight very strongly, try to use WD40, and wait few minutes. If still wont go , use hummer and lightely knock the bolt (put some wood between hummer and bolt - and just lightely knocking - not to use strong force) just to make vibration to stress the roost and make WD40 efficient. Than try to unscrew the bolt.

I hope the link above will tells you moore then 1000 words
Cheers
Aca

 

[aca]

its full of mayonese, is there any product to do this?

Almost forgott, mayonese will be easely wiped with soft cotton cloth and combination of few liters of Panda fuel (you can use fuel from Panda fuel tank). Mayonese is formed from mixture of coolant and engine oil, due to dammage of gasket. In that situation first sign of mayonese is shown onto oil filler cap.
If overheating is present for just few minutes probaply you can avoid skimming of engine head, but if overheating is serious, than probably the best way is to give this work to engeneering house. Just cearfully read Guide onto link to Cinque link I gave you above.
Cheers
Aca

 

[gibanitza]

One more suggestion:

While the engine head is dismantled from the block you should check the condition of valves, valve guides and valve seats just to make sure everything is ok... Also, now is a good moment to visually check cylinder walls and measure and tune up the valve clearances...

 

[xsparky]

) i took out already the cylinder head out (this is what needs to be flatten, right?
or does the cylinder block surface needs to be flatten also) and how should i clean the inside of the cylinder block/crankase?
its full of mayonese, is there any product to do this?

The cylinder head is the part that you skim [if it needs it] remember that it will increase the compression ratio slightly. It would be rare for a block to need re-facing.
As you have had water in your oil, I would be inclined to run your engine with some flushing oil when it is back together, if that is difficult to get hold of, run any high detergent engine oil through it for a few miles and drain it out thoroughly before putting your normal oil in. I had a bike that got completely submerged in water crossing a river, and it took 9 oil changes to get the mayo out! Yours won't be that bad, but still worth doing I think.

Good luck
Mike