General Panda 4x4

[philboo]

I've just checked the Configurator and it now allows City Brake control to be selected with a Twin-Air 4x4 and it is clear about the fold-down passenger seat. I can't recall who kindly pointed out that the options for the flex packs cost less than the whole, but that is still the case by the looks of things!

Anyhow, test drives are now booked in Salisbury, as they have just taken delivery of both a T/A and a Diesel. They can't show me any decent colour samples, but reckon they will be able point out most colours in the show-room and among other pre-delivery customer cars (not 4x4s, obviously!).

The Configurator hasn't worked for me all night if I've tried to change from the diesel version but it hangs. it'll be interesting when it works to see this.

I have been onto Fiat today about 'city brake', the discrepancy in the twin air/diesel config for 'city brake' and also why the dealer doesn't even appear to have an option to add this on the real ordering system regardless of the configurator. I've a case number with Fiat and hope that it'll get sorted.

I'm not optimistic though as I couldn't see it mentioned in the Italian brochure I posted on here as an option, just a paragraph about 'City Brake'.

 

[doctorchris]

Well, in order that I know what everyone on this thread is talking about and to prevent me dismissing it out of hand, I've taken a test drive in a Mk 4 Panda 4x4 with the Twinair engine. This was courtesy of Springfield Fiat in Gateshead who were very helpful. After the usual formalities they sent me off in a white 4x4 fitted with a variety of extras and about a half tank of fuel. No salesman with me, and a vague time limit of an hour or so, though they didn't seem too bothered to be honest.
I was able to test the car in congested town traffic, on motorway and on winding rural roads. Sadly it didn't snow during my test drive.
Firstly, that engine, entirely new to me. It reminded me strongly of my old BMW F650 motorcycle which had a 650cc four stroke single cylinder engine. Quite a lot of raw noise and vibration, no point in revving it very much, far better to change up a gear at around 2,000rpm and let it shake a bit. The engine is fun and makes the car lively, far livelier than either of the Mk3 Panda 4x4s.
The six-speed gearbox is a bit of a pain for someone like me who learned to drive in a Triumph Herald with a four speed 'box where first was for moving off only. However I coped better than with the only other six speed I've encountered which was in a 100HP.
The ride was comfortable, the seat less so, tended to dig in beneath my thighs. Handling was predictable though the front end felt a bit lighter than I'm happy with.
After my test run I got back into the Cross and was astonished at how much pressure the clutch required, compared with the the newest Panda. I also noticed how much more relaxing to drive the Cross is. Now, some of that is familiarity, the newer car required more concentration because I wasn't used to it. However the Diesel engine in the Cross required less effort and less frequent gear changes to make good progress. I wasn't happy with the new handbrake or the stop/start system, they impaired my concentration.
I don't think this latest Panda 4x4 offers enough for me to change to it from the Cross. I'm still keen on the Duster and I think that's because it has more space inside which I'm finding I need for various reasons. I do also like the Duster for being so low tech. In the latest Panda 4x4 I felt myself aware of the high tech and electronics buzzing away in the background and found it a bit disconcerting.
However, the car is a good effort from Fiat and the dealer I visited made the effort required to sell this car.

 

[Ulpian]

Thanks for that.

I haven't driven the 4x4 or Trekking yet, but I found the ordinary TA Panda to be a real hoot. I thought the engine was very smooth but with that TA thrum which was more audial than resonant. For me the seat was perfect and I had no trouble with the very easy six speed box, although I thought I would. I don't love the handbrake any more than you do though. Stop-start: it can be switched off

It was the sheer fun of the car and the imediate pick up and quick acceleration which so impressed me, and the comfortable ride and overall feeling of rightness. As you know, I loved it and it was like coming home to be in a Fiat again after trying so many other makes. Weird or what?

I drove the 4x4 Duster a couple of weeks ago and it is indeed much larger and a good car. But - the pick up (Diesel) from a standstill was awful; glacial (it's the very low first gear), and I really missed my old Doblo, let alone the Panda, and the steering on the Duster is 3.5 turns from lock to lock, whereas on the Panda, and Doblo, it is only 2.5 - all for the same turning radius mind! This means steering the Duster is a slow whitted wheel twirly affair, not the quick and alert flick of the wrist experience that I think nearly all Fiats offer. The differences were palpable.

I'm waiting to try the 2x4 Duster because the 4x4 is not what I want anyway, being expensive and in a relatively high tax bracket. But it has a proper spare wheel (if you pay extra on the 2x4 ), is very comfortable and roomy, and is certainly a decent car.

It will be a very difficult decision for a lot of people. But at the moment the Trekking has it for me: the fun factor matters you see...

 

[Murano16v]

Nice 8 page spread on the 4x4 in this months Top Gear Magazine.

Checked that out today. Good article and some really great photos. The dark metallic green looks fantastic. Quite fancy one.

 

[doctorchris]

I also had a good look at the diesel-engined Panda 4x4 that was sitting in the showroom and picked up on a few details. I was very pleased to see that the turbo now sits right at the top of the engine bay, easily accessible and well away from the road dirt and salt that was almost certainly responsible for the seized wastegate actuator on my Cross. If I owned this new model I would regularly spray that mechanism with some form of anti-seize product.
The air intake is also sited high up so that wading becomes less hazardous.
The underside is well-designed with vulnerable components tucked up safely and a sump guard is fitted. However, there's a curious vertical spoiler beneath the front bumper that would be easily damaged off-road.
I found the details of the interior bright and attractive. Nice big and easily understood radio buttons and, indeed, other switches and controls. Rather too many controls on the steering wheel/column for my own personal taste, however.
Nice to see that the boot cover ascends and descends on its own now, no more driving off with it obscuring the rear view.

 

[philboo]

Nice to see that the boot cover ascends and descends on its own now, no more driving off with it obscuring the rear view.

HAHAHA I did that tonight in my Mk3 !

Fiat have been back to me tonight regarding the 'City Brake' option to say it's now available on both versions on the configurator (which it is) but more importantly that it is now available to the dealers to order from the last two days.

I'll be ringing my dealer tomorrow to add this on as it's the one thing I was thinking I'd probably miss out on if Fiat didn't make it available until later in the year.

 

[4x4Panda]

Excellent news re City Brake. I am very much looking forward to my test drive tomorrow. With any luck I'll be able to try out both T/A and diesel.

Any views on 4 vs 5 seats?

I was thinking 5 gives the most flexibility but then again the 4 seater has sliding rear seats which is probably more useful more often.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I assume this 'City Brake' is the 'City Brake Assist' as Fiat call it to avoid you hitting things when at low speed

 

[homeward]

I assume this 'City Brake' is the 'City Brake Assist' as Fiat call it to avoid you hitting things when at low speed

I'm assuming so, too... -- although, in the original Panda brochure, it was called the "Low Speed Crash Mitigation System" (which is more of a mouthful, admittedly: but at least more descriptive...)!

 

[philboo]

I'm assuming so, too... -- although, in the original Panda brochure, it was called the "Low Speed Crash Mitigation System" (which is more of a mouthful, admittedly: but at least more descriptive...)!

Attached is the page from the Italian brochure that mentions it, and the translation courtesy of google.

With panda you enjoy driving and travel without worries, because he knows when to brake his great energy. About the City Brake Control, an innovative driver assistance, able to recognize obstacles placed in front of the car and brake automatically when
the driver does not take action to avoid them. Analyzing parameters such as the position of the obstacles, the relative velocity of the vehicles, the steering angle and pressure on the accelerator, the City Brake Control operates completely avoiding the collision or reducing the magnitude.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

A bit long winded, but interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKzorL55Saw

 

[ophelia]

The English subtitles are very interesting!

 

[Ulpian]

I love the idea of this feature, and it is supposed to reduce insurance peremiums markedly. Does anyone know if the braking stalls a manual car or does the car slip into neutral?

The featured car was a 500L TA 105 I'm thinking; very nice too - but I could't get whether it stalled - don't think so - or what. Anyone...?

 

[4x4Panda]

I had my test drive earlier today - but only took the T/A out as in reality, that is the only one i would go for.

I had quite a decent test drive, with the salesman and my Mrs in the car as well.

My impressions:

The first thing I noticed is how much quicker it is than a 1.2 Mk3 4x4. You could almost call it sporty, but perhaps 'spirited' is more appropriate.

The next thing that stands out is the ride quality. Again, this is in a whole different league and so good I'm surprised they were able to achieve this with such a small car.

Handling - well it does suffer a bit of body roll through corners (like the old model), but the steering is nicely weighted and provides reasonable feedback (maybe a tad less than the Mk3?) and it never felt less than sure footed and predictable.

The engine is a funny thing - loads of low-end 'grunt' and it sounds a bit like a motor-bike. I imagine it would take a bit of time to get used to, as the engine can be driven in two ways: keep the revs low and rely on that grunt to take care of things (which it does spookily well for such a tiny engine) OR you can keep the revs high and it behaves more like a sporty FIAT of old. Rather fun actually and ads a genunine 'interest factor'. It comes with a 'shift advisor' as standard which was always telling me to change up. I expect this is something to do with maximising economy?

The inside is a nice place to be - decent seats, comfortable, excellent heater (much better than the old model) and a comprehensive radio / CD sound system, which also seems to include the facility to connect an iPod and the like.

As to the build quality - well the paint and fit and finish are generally very good indeed, but with one small exception: The dash surround has rather an unfinished quality to it's edge - rough without being sharp. I presume its a moulding line, which one would have thought could have been smoothed off.

The inside certainly has a utilitarian feel to it - the plastics have a tough feel, rather than the slick 'posh' look you get in a 500. And a very nice touch is the way the letters P A N D A are embossed all over some of the interior trim.

Anyhow, it was so much better than I had expected that i ended up placing an order

I have a couple of days to finalise the colour and spec. The only two bits I'm unsure of are the colour (Med Blue - it was that or Green, per the Mrs) and it is currently specced as a 4 seater (would I come to regret that come resale time?). Views please!

 

[philboo]

Anyhow, it was so much better than I had expected that i ended up placing an order

I have a couple of days to finalise the colour and spec. The only two bits I'm unsure of are the colour (Med Blue - it was that or Green, per the Mrs) and it is currently specced as a 4 seater (would I come to regret that come resale time?). Views please!

Great news to hear

I liked your review. I felt very similar about it. The engine is going to take time to get the best balance of economy and fun out of it. When I'd driven it I was trying to work out if I just wanted to order one because I've waited so long for a panda 4x4 that ticks the right boxes or if it was actually that good.

In my case I hope it's the latter.

My concern is only that it does about 45mpg on the daily commute which is 65% motorway each way but I'm not sure it will.

With regard to the rear seats I went for the 4 seat option. I can't remember when I've ever had 5 people in my car. I do want the split fold as its handy to give my parents a lift to the airport with luggage and I fancy the slide function of the rear seats will be possibly used more than a 5th seat would ever be.

Congratulations again. I can't wait and have been on to my dealer this morning to get the city brake option added. They are going to do this on Monday when the manager is in.

 

[Ulpian]

I felt exactly the same way when I drove the normal one.
The plastic edge along the bottom of the shelf is a bit rough, but that's all I noticed and on balance I think the Panda is far nicer inside than the 500, and it has a glove box

Seats? I agree with philiboo, when do you ever carry five people in the back unless you are a student, and then you shouldn't

It's a fun little scamp of a car, and I haven't driven anyhting as enjoyable for a very long time.

Have you discovered how much the collision aversion gubbins costs and how much it might save on insurance. When I inquired of my insurance company a couple of months ago they had no idea what i was talking about?

Oh, and colour: I'd go for white - looks good and saves money for extras - or the red. I hate red cars usually, but not this one I think little cars can afford to be bright.

 

[gremlin]

Hey deeyup - following your recommendation I called to Griffin Mill today and saw Marc.After a test drive of the 4x4 diesel I ordered one!

It is a great car and I was impressed with the ride,engine,interior and quality.Definately a big step up from a 1.2 4x4 my wife had about 6 years ago and felt good next to my qubo trekking.

Marc and Gary at Griffin Mill were great to deal with and we quickly sorted out a deal.

I have ordered a diesel in white with pumpkin and grey trim.Also added a few extras - winter pack,parking sensors,privacy glass,driver seat height adjuster,3 rear seat configuration.

Can't wait for the new arrival.

 

[deeyup]

Ace news. Great to see some more 4x4 ordered.

Glad Marc has looked after you gremlin . They are very good at griffin mill.
My 500 was delivered with a leaking fuel tank. No probs, they took it in and immediately gave me a loan car to use for the next 2 weeks whilst they waited for a new tank from Poland/Italy or wherever.
Then when I couldn't make the appt for my twin air coils to be changed i asked if i could come straight in now instead. After checking with the tech they squeezed me in.

I think this is what makes a good dealer, great aftercare.
I'm sure you'll find the same.

 

[4x4Panda]

On the order form the brake assist comes up as:

City Brake Control (CBC)

I've been told late Feb or March delivery - they are not expecting a long wait.

(Oh, and the plate PA13NDA is still available from DVLA if anyone is interested...)

 

[Uluru]

Hey guys,

I noted that someone here recommended reading the eight page spread in this months Top Gear magazine, so I did - and I thought others might like a read so I shared it here:

http://imgur.com/a/33GYE

Hope that was of interest, thought it was a good read and the panda looks great (might be slightly biased as its my colour though haha).

Cheers.