Technical Panda (169) Headlight problem

[waterman]

Hello, I have problem with my right headlight. Suddently it stops working the dipped beam (the high beam is ok).
I change the lamps from one side to the other but the problem remains to the right headlight.
I measure it and I found that there is no power to dipped terminal.
Can someone please help me?

 

[koalar]

Look at the connector on the body computer

​

All models (Saloon and Van) 5540 1 351 TB DIPPED BEAM HEADLIGHTS Failed operation - Service Solution Cancels and replaces SN 55.06.10 of 05/02/2010 for validity extension to currently produced cars. FAULT COMPLAINED OF​ The dipped headlamps do not work. TECHNICAL CAUSE​ Dipped headlamps cable terminals overheating at the body computer connector. OPERATIONS IN NETWORK​ NETWORK BEHAVIOUR STANDARDS TOWARDS THE CUSTOMER​ Once the customer's claimed fault is confirmed, reassure the customer that it can be solved by restoring the electrical connections for the dipped headlamps. After the operation, show the Customer what has been done and make sure he is satisfied. SERVICE SOLUTION​ Once the customer's claimed fault is confirmed, replace the connector and the two cable terminals for dipped headlamps using the components of kit no. 71745167, following the instructions in the Operating Cycle below. OPERATION CYCLE​ Disconnect the battery negative pole Remove the body computer housing cover from the dashboard Identify the connector B on the body computer (Fig. 1). Fig. 1 Disconnect the 10-pole connector B (Fig. 1) Untape the wiring by about 100 mm (Fig. 2). Fig. 2 Release the secondary lock with lid (1 - Fig. 3) for the connector (2) and open it. With the help of an extractor (3 - Fig. 3) release and take out the terminals (4) from the connector. Fig. 3 Cut the relevant cables: GREY/BLACK cable (1 - Fig. 4) at pin 7 and GREY cable (2) at pin 8, about 50 mm from the metal part of the terminals. Peel the ends of the cables, wiring side, by around 10 mm Fig. 4 Cut the sections of cable (fig. 5), supplied in the kit, about 60 mm from the metal part of the terminals. Peel the ends of the sections of cable by around 10 mm Fig. 5 Insert the thermal shrinking sheath tubes (1 - Fig. 6) in the sections of cable sliding them as far as the terminals, moving them away from the following welding area - which is heat source - to prevent thermal shrinking. Wrap the wiring side and section side exposed lengths of individual cables around one another at the point shown by the arrows and carry out a tin welding. Fig. 6 Place the thermal shrinking sheaths symmetrically on the weldings (Fig. 7). Fig. 7 Heat the thermal shrinking sheaths using a bodywork drier until they have completely shaped onto the cables. Fit the ends of the cables in the new connector, supplied in the kit, making sure that they are correctly positioned as shown in the diagram (Fig. 8). Fig. 8 Pin 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Cable colour = N S V ZB HG+HG HN H BR A Close the secondary lock (1 - Fig. 9) with lid completely until the fastening teeth can be heard clicking into place. Fig. 9 Tape the wiring in the area of the operation, as far as the connector, using electrician's tape. Before reconnecting the connector, check the conditions of the Body Computer male terminals; if they are damaged, replace the Body Computer (see the Parts Catalogue for the part number). Replace the 10-A fuses (F12 and F13 in Fig. 1) with two new 7.5-A fuses Fit the body computer housing cover in the dashboard Connect the battery negative pole. AVALABILITY OF PARTS​ Version Description Part No. Q.ty All models in question Dipped headlamp connector kit (*) 71745167 1 All models in question 7.5-A fuses 10395990 1 (**) (*) The kit is formed by: no. 1 10-pole grey connector no. 2 cable sections with terminal no. 2 thermal shrinking sheaths (**) Each pack contains 10 fuses CLAIM REPORT DATA​ Version Operation Piece Fault Position Time allowance All models in question 5540135 1 TB - 0.30 (*) All models in question 5540136 1 TB - 0.40 (**) (*) Time allowance for operation on the connector. (**) Time allowance for operation on the connector plus Body Computer replacement.

 

[A3jeroen]

Yeah that. Grey connector on the bottom of the BCM. I think there is a thread with pictures and partno's in a thread I started about Bellezza Nera, my 100 Hp.

gr J

 

[waterman]

Look at the connector on the body computer

​

All models (Saloon and Van) 5540 1 351 TB DIPPED BEAM HEADLIGHTS Failed operation - Service Solution View attachment 444751 Cancels and replaces SN 55.06.10 of 05/02/2010 for validity extension to currently produced cars. FAULT COMPLAINED OF​ The dipped headlamps do not work. TECHNICAL CAUSE​ Dipped headlamps cable terminals overheating at the body computer connector. OPERATIONS IN NETWORK​ NETWORK BEHAVIOUR STANDARDS TOWARDS THE CUSTOMER​ Once the customer's claimed fault is confirmed, reassure the customer that it can be solved by restoring the electrical connections for the dipped headlamps. After the operation, show the Customer what has been done and make sure he is satisfied. SERVICE SOLUTION​ Once the customer's claimed fault is confirmed, replace the connector and the two cable terminals for dipped headlamps using the components of kit no. 71745167, following the instructions in the Operating Cycle below. OPERATION CYCLE​ Disconnect the battery negative pole Remove the body computer housing cover from the dashboard Identify the connector B on the body computer (Fig. 1). Fig. 1 Disconnect the 10-pole connector B (Fig. 1) Untape the wiring by about 100 mm (Fig. 2). Fig. 2 Release the secondary lock with lid (1 - Fig. 3) for the connector (2) and open it. With the help of an extractor (3 - Fig. 3) release and take out the terminals (4) from the connector. Fig. 3 Cut the relevant cables: GREY/BLACK cable (1 - Fig. 4) at pin 7 and GREY cable (2) at pin 8, about 50 mm from the metal part of the terminals. Peel the ends of the cables, wiring side, by around 10 mm Fig. 4 Cut the sections of cable (fig. 5), supplied in the kit, about 60 mm from the metal part of the terminals. Peel the ends of the sections of cable by around 10 mm Fig. 5 Insert the thermal shrinking sheath tubes (1 - Fig. 6) in the sections of cable sliding them as far as the terminals, moving them away from the following welding area - which is heat source - to prevent thermal shrinking. Wrap the wiring side and section side exposed lengths of individual cables around one another at the point shown by the arrows and carry out a tin welding. Fig. 6 Place the thermal shrinking sheaths symmetrically on the weldings (Fig. 7). Fig. 7 Heat the thermal shrinking sheaths using a bodywork drier until they have completely shaped onto the cables. Fit the ends of the cables in the new connector, supplied in the kit, making sure that they are correctly positioned as shown in the diagram (Fig. 8). Fig. 8 Pin 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Cable colour = N S V ZB HG+HG HN H BR A Close the secondary lock (1 - Fig. 9) with lid completely until the fastening teeth can be heard clicking into place. Fig. 9 Tape the wiring in the area of the operation, as far as the connector, using electrician's tape. Before reconnecting the connector, check the conditions of the Body Computer male terminals; if they are damaged, replace the Body Computer (see the Parts Catalogue for the part number). Replace the 10-A fuses (F12 and F13 in Fig. 1) with two new 7.5-A fuses Fit the body computer housing cover in the dashboard Connect the battery negative pole. AVALABILITY OF PARTS​ Version Description Part No. Q.ty All models in question Dipped headlamp connector kit (*) 71745167 1 All models in question 7.5-A fuses 10395990 1 (**) (*) The kit is formed by: no. 1 10-pole grey connector no. 2 cable sections with terminal no. 2 thermal shrinking sheaths (**) Each pack contains 10 fuses CLAIM REPORT DATA​ Version Operation Piece Fault Position Time allowance All models in question 5540135 1 TB - 0.30 (*) All models in question 5540136 1 TB - 0.40 (**) (*) Time allowance for operation on the connector. (**) Time allowance for operation on the connector plus Body Computer replacement.

Thank you for your help but I cannot see the pictures

 

[koalar]

 

[waterman]

View attachment 444827View attachment 444828View attachment 444829

Thank you very much !!!

 

[waterman]

Finally the problem was in the headlight. The cable insulations had melted and were short-circuiting. Is there any way to open the headlight to replace the wires?

 

[koalar]

I am pretty sure there isn't an easy way to open

The lens looks like it's clipped on, but the only one I have tried was glued

You can remove most of the connectors and motors

You maybe able to

Tie a bit of string to the old wire, Cut it out and pull the string through

Tie your new wire to the string and pull it through

Not something I have done on a panda headlight

 

[irc]

Possible but a pain.
Even more of a pain to get them back in again.
This one had a problem with headlanp bulb connector. Main plug comes out by twisting, giving access to H4 connector wires.
(Sadly I gave up on this one in the end as the electric adjuster kept activating.
I thought it was a short in the wires, but they all tested ok.)

 

[irc]

Just heard about a strange problem with a Panda's headlights. Car is a 1.1 Active Eco from 2009, Right hand drive.
Apparently, both dipped beams failed, bulbs were changed (but not checked before going in the bin). New bulbs didn't fix problem. Mechanic (-ish) at side of road looked for blown fuses (didn't find any) and changed bulbs again. No difference.
Car driven home and i got a phone call this morning. Short of time, so said i would have a look but probably won't have time to do more than check the basics.
Car arrived, with no dipped beams and one high beam (left) out too.
Checked over the obvious (bulb fuses, infamous BCU connector which sometimes burns out but I've only seen on LHD cars) and found one fuse (F13, left dipped beam, 7.5a) blown. Changed it, tried lights, blew immediately.
Disconnected headlamp connector, replaced fuse, switched on lights, blew again. Puzzled, decided to look at the other headlamp.
Disconnected RH headlamp connector and retried. Fuse didn't blow. Took out RH bulb and found H4 connector was scorched. It disintegrated while removing, so replaced the connector block after cleaning up the terminals.
Plugged everything back in and...
LH dipped beam now works, RH doesnt.
RH high beam now works, LH doesn't.
Re-checked fuses, all OK.
Having run out of time to do any further diagnosis, thought I'd see if it rings any bells with forum members.
I should get to see the car again next week, so I'll be able to investigate it properly, but I'm having problems working through the symptoms at the moment as they seem to be all over the place.
Anyone seen anything similar?

 

[koalar]

Maybe start by putting a scantool on and connecting to the body computer

If it detects a fault the body computer switches off power to the bulb and logs an error but doesn't but a warning light on the low end dasha

You can run the actuator test to turn then on and off

I doubt it will show anything different but worth a double check while the scan tool is connected

with dipped and main on,.if you back probe the three connectors, two should be battery voltage and one close to 0V, (left if I remember correctly) if all three are close to battery voltage then it's an earth problem, eyelet or black box on the scuttle panel, seeing it's rained a lot lately a flooded scuttle is quite likely

Earth is most likely as they can back feed via other paths

 

[irc]

I didn't get the opportunity to use a scan tool yesterday because of the lack of time with the car, but I definitely will be next time.
I didn't mention it (coz it's almost a muscle memory thing for me now) but I did check and clean up the scuttle earth (its a simple eyelet type on the 2010 Actives) - it looked fine anyway, but its a go-to fix for any "strange" electrical problem. Also cleaned up the battery earth connector (was slightly oxidised, but not excessively) and put on some battery grease as it looked like it had never had any before.

The only quick test I would have done which I couldn't do was to plug in a different headlight to see if there was any difference. I have plenty of old (white connector) type headlights but currently no new (purple connector) type ones.
(I have come across the occasional strange headlight problem which were caused by melted wiring inside the headlight)

I'm still puzzled by the symptoms though... how can the RH headlight blow the fuse for the LH dipped beam? I know the dipped beam fuses also covers the headlight motors, but I had assumed that they were per-side. Maybe they are both on one fuse so a fault on the RH motor blows the LH fuse... time to look at some circuit diagrams I guess.

 

[A3jeroen]

With a 169 and a dipped beam problem it is always a good thing to check the grey connector on the bodycomputer. I think there must be pictures in my Bellezza Nera thread.

gr J

 

[koalar]

I'm still puzzled by the symptoms though... how can the RH headlight blow the fuse for the LH dipped beam? I know the dipped beam fuses also covers the headlight motors, but I had assumed that they were per-side. Maybe they are both on one fuse so a fault on the RH motor blows the LH fuse... time to look at some circuit diagrams I guess.

You could be on to something here

Both motors are powered by F13, so a short or stalled motor on either side could blow the same fuse

And are tapped into each sides H4 bulb holders ground circuit so can effect current flow to the bulbs

 

[irc]

With a 169 and a dipped beam problem it is always a good thing to check the grey connector on the bodycomputer. I think there must be pictures in my Bellezza Nera thread.

gr J

Yep, did that.
Never seen the problem on a RHD panda, but there's always a first time. I thought this might be it, but connector was unmarked. I've had an official Fiat repair kit hanging around for a few years that I got in a job lot of parts, but not needed so far.

 

[irc]

You could be on to something here

Both motors are powered by F13, so a short or stalled motor on either side could blow the same fuse

And are tapped into each sides H4 bulb holders ground circuit so can effect current flow to the bulbs

View attachment 476765

That looks like an interesting possibility... it fits at least some of the symptoms nicely. Thanks for finding that.

Think I need to get hold of a spare headlight to verify/rule out.

 

[koalar]

That looks like an interesting possibility... it fits at least some of the symptoms nicely. Thanks for finding that.

Think I need to get hold of a spare headlight to verify/rule out.

Shame

Bet there's been loads of scrap smashed headlights thrown in the bin

Looks like the would make nice test rigs

Keep a set of each colour connector

 

[irc]

I've got one for the old type headlights - not planned, I was trying to replace the motor in one and one of the plastic pivots snapped as I was taking the wires out.
I was wondering if I had enough bits to make up a converter from new-type loom to old-type headlight, but I don't have a new-type socket. (Although I will have when I get a replacement headlight, assuming the current one is stuffed)

 

[koalar]

A quickish test would be to disconnecting the headlight adjustment motors

A suspect.a short In the the wiring or motor and adding a break in the circuit might be enough confirm this

 

[irc]

A quickish test would be to disconnecting the headlight adjustment motors

A suspect.a short In the the wiring or motor and adding a break in the circuit might be enough confirm this

I was thinking along those lines, but with a bit of luck, I should have a known-working pair of the correct headlights arriving next week.

When I (eventually) get to see the car again I will be swapping out both the headlights with the known good ones, and then I will work backwards from there, depending on what happens.
I need to change one anyway because of a broken bracket, but of course its the other one that seems to be causing the problem.
If it fixes all the problems then I will probably disassemble the faulty one just to see what went wrong. If not, it'll be back to the drawing board, I guess, but it will have eliminated the motor(s).