Technical P2000-97 error code after a motor swap and failed soot levels on inspection

[ltz]

Thanks for the feedback! So, I'm thinking Lambda challenges..

After the driving yesterday I didnt see any soot in the exhaust. So today I drove it via the local inspections office and managed to get a free soot check on the vehicle - plugging it in to the same machine that failed the vehicle before the remap of injectors. This time it passed the standard "official" test they are doing (connect plug to exhaust then one quick push full throttle). I had the multiecuscan connected and noticed that the second Lambda wasnt showing real values but instead only displayed "100%" - instead of following the first lambda.

At this time the inspection guy tried a new exhaust tester they are prototyping which measures particles on idle engine. Since the second lambda still was showing 100% test result was "4 million particles" - approved measures is max 1 million with this prototype test tool. We waited a minute - the secondary lambda suddenly started showing "normal values" and we did this test again - and test results was just above approved limit if 1.4 million.

Questions:
A - Now when I display multiecuscan on off engine I can see the two lambda sensors displaying different values. One i 100% and one is 0%. I believe this is a sign that the post dpf-lambda is broken/glitchy?
B - Should I simply give the engine more time to warm up secondary lambda sensor or change it right away?
C - Noticed software is 0028 - is it worth changing to 0032 even if the lambda thing above might solve sooting?
D - The potential differences on desired air intake graphs in the previous message - what can I do/check more on that one?

 

[theoneandonly]

look at my graph earlier in thread post#8 the front sensor starts at 0% for about 2 minutes the rear 100% (full of air when cold 21% of air is O2) for 5 minutes. If getting these values with warm engine then sensors suspect (at least 8mins after startup and running not idle).
software change from 28 to 32, same position as i'm in. I keep prevaricating (sorry for long word) i'm undecided as whether to change.

 

[ltz]

In your car - your lower sensor start from 100% and your upper from 0%? or both start from 0%?

Ive found alot of 5 cable fiat sensors where specs state that these are for ducato 2.3 from 2011 and onwards.. Anyone know if its only the contact that differs between these? Autodoc claim for instance that this would fit my car - but has the older connector: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/ngk/7615959

 

[theoneandonly]

Hope this graph is clearer
The blue is front sensor starting at zero.
the turquiose (blue green) rear starts at 100%
unfortunately it doesn't start with a totaly cold engine

 

[ltz]

Hope this graph is clearer
The blue is front sensor starting at zero.
the turquiose (blue green) rear starts at 100%
unfortunately it doesn't start with a totaly cold engine
View attachment 410419

Ah so this image is from your engine? I'm thinking if 0% Vs 100% is expected behaviour when these sensors are cold or if they should start from 0% both?

 

[theoneandonly]

yes its my engine. a 2017 twin egr model
from cold
the front starts at 0 zero
the rear starts at 100%

 

[ltz]

Ok So a thread wrapup for anyone interested in the future.

- vehicle got 180tkm on two engines. Massive troubles with injectors and emissions systems.
- recent engine swap to a 70tkm with new injectors.
- throwing error code p2000-97 but clear when finally cleared with alfaodb and not via mes ( think it was related to wifi dongle)
- injectors seems a bit off. Lambda nr 2 is slow on starting but seems normal.

Currently:
- No error codes.
- remap of injectors reduced smoke. vehicle is now cleared on the yearly inspection.
- Can see a little bit black smoke on high revs - seems to be related to the period before the second lambda starts a few minutes after start
- Also can see alot of more particles when the second lambda is not started.

testing continues

 

[theoneandonly]

Good to hear its back in use.

 

[ltz]

Do all your ducatos have white smoke when its a bit colder outside for the first few minutes driving??


And another update. :

Did the software update from Fiat (150Eur) --> no apparent change. all data looks the same.

Current:
- Seeing white smoke cold days (4+ Celsius outside) for a few minutes. (like any old diesel engine seems to behave.)
- During a 100 km drive. I can at least withness one or two black smoke sessions where a puff or two goes out. Especially when engine is cold.
- No errors in the software.

Just drove a total of 3000 km germany trip in one week.

I'm thinking to replace lambda's (since smoke is correlating to the period when one of them are not "warmed up yet"). And perhaps change back to other injectors.

 

[bugsymike]

Do all your ducatos have white smoke when its a bit colder outside for the first few minutes driving??


And another update. :

Did the software update from Fiat (150Eur) --> no apparent change. all data looks the same.

Current:
- Seeing white smoke cold days (4+ Celsius outside) for a few minutes. (like any old diesel engine seems to behave.)
- During a 100 km drive. I can at least withness one or two black smoke sessions where a puff or two goes out. Especially when engine is cold.
- No errors in the software.

Just drove a total of 3000 km germany trip in one week.

I'm thinking to replace lambda's (since smoke is correlating to the period when one of them are not "warmed up yet"). And perhaps change back to other injectors.

I am old school mechanic, so to me diesels showing white smoke on start up is due to unburnt fuel, caused by low compression or heater plug or other cold start device issue, generally shown by a longer cranking period, worse in cold weather.
Are there any owners with nearly new similar models experiencing similar issues in your climate who can better comment?
As where I live in winter we barely see a heavy frost .

 

[ltz]

White smoke still continue for a few minutes driving, correlating to the time that the second lambda havent warmed up yet. I'm thinking to change it. but it seems to be 150gbp for a euro 6 lambda sensor with the newer conector (non oem). (can I purchase any 5-lead lambda and solder on old connector to fit a euro 6 twin egr ducato?)

 

[bugsymike]

White smoke still continue for a few minutes driving, correlating to the time that the second lambda havent warmed up yet. I'm thinking to change it. but it seems to be 150gbp for a euro 6 lambda sensor with the newer conector (non oem). (can I purchase any 5-lead lambda and solder on old connector to fit a euro 6 twin egr ducato?)

Surely white smoke is still unburnt fuel whether the Lambda sensor has warmed enough to read it or not?
So unless the sensor tells the ECU to switch off the heater plugs, then lower than optimum compression may be a possible cause.
I am not saying scrap the engine as once warm it runs to your satisfaction.
I have seen many old engines smoke white on start up and continue to give good service for many years. Obviously the colder the climate the worse the issue. Standing near the white smoke can hurt/sting your eyes due to the unburnt fuel.
I always liked the Perkins engines I had in some older vehicles that used a heating element igniting fuel from the injector leak off/return which heated the cold air drawn into the engine. Much in the crude way people used to put a burning rag down the manifold years ago

 

[ltz]

Hmm so how could I investigate more there - a heater plug malfunction should generate a scannable error?

 

[bugsymike]

Hmm so how could I investigate more there - a heater plug malfunction should generate a scannable error?

It certainly should do, although if the ECU is given information to turn off the power to the heater plugs then no. Maybe a volt meter on the heater plugs on start up could tell you.
Sometimes on older Diesels we used to turn the ignition on then when the heater plug light went out after it's timer told it, we would repeat a couple of times to give it more "heat".

 

[bugsymike]

It certainly should do, although if the ECU is given information to turn off the power to the heater plugs then no. Maybe a volt meter on the heater plugs on start up could tell you.
Sometimes on older Diesels we used to turn the ignition on then when the heater plug light went out after it's timer told it, we would repeat a couple of times to give it more "heat".

Thinking back, the Perkins "cold start device" I described is similar to one I had on a 1997 2.8 Ducato pre ECU engine that I fitted in a boat but never connected or the other heater plugs, though I would say that in the middle of winter with ice on the gunnels it would always start instantly with no white smoke.
When an apprentice we learnt that generally Direct Injection diesels had higher compression and as a result had less of an issue starting than the Indirect or Ricardo design, but this was 53 years ago

 

[bugsymike]

I understand that many modern diesels the ECU keeps the heater plugs on for a period of time to as driving along to aid warm up.

 

[jackwhoo]

Very gently and carefully sniff the white smoke if it is acrid and burns your eyes a little bit it is possibly diesel vapour.
If smoke not as above then possibly water vapour?