Opinions and help please.

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well folks, I'm sure many of you will have read about our "gearbox armageddon". It's was a pretty unpleasant experience, being so far from home with a wrecked gearbox and having to lay out so much money for repair. I'm a far from happy bunny about it all but Mrs J has lost all confidence in the car and want's us to get something else. I'm feeling a little more realistic in that now it's got a factory exchange box in it there's no reason to think it won't go on for another 5 or 6 years at least and I feel I'd like to run it for a while longer and get some value for the money spent. Therefore I don't want to make a hasty decision I'll maybe regret. However Mrs J is pushing for me to consider what we might replace it with and, you know how things are chaps, I know I'll get no peace unless I at least look as if I'm complying! Then it suddenly occurred to me that one of the friends we met up with while we were down near Salisbury was running around in a 2020 Renault Captur 1.3 Tce. I took a very brief ride in it as passenger and have to say I thought it was very nice. Much more comfy seats than the Ibiza and rode the potholes much better too. 4 cylinder engine too which I thought was nicer than the Ibiza's 3 cyl jobbie.

So, anyone got any opinions on them? Must say although my emotions are saying "nice looking comfy car with enough "go" to satisfy me", my brain is saying "Oh no no noooo! It's French, you'll regret it!

 

[StevenRB45]

Personally I'd go Clio, the latest one has a surprisingly large boot at about 380 litres (my Mazda was 340, C3 is 300) and they are actually have nicer interior quality than the VW equivalent. Simply because they bench marked the previous Polo and were expecting VW to step forward rather than back.

It's a tidy looking thing and apparently set up for comfort without being wallowy like a C3.

Reliability wise...you want a reliable car it's pretty a case of buy a Toyota at this point. Other Japanese/Korean brands or also pretty good. European vehicles wise..they are all as good/bad as each other as this point. It is as you say unlikely the Seat will let you down the same way again time to have a think at leisure.

 

[Badget]

My wife bought a captur new in 2019, no issues at all with it so far.
Though it is only the 900cc 3 cylinder.

I'm not sure they're even that french anymore, unless you're planning on keeping it for twenry yeats or racking up interstellar millage, most cars seem to be pretty much the same these days.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well I dont know what the current Renault range is like is but my family have run a lot of Renaults and overall they performed well with nothing catastrophic to report. My last one was a Laguna 2.2 Dt and cost me a large packet. It was by far the least reliable overall of the lot. It was a very nice car to drive though. We had 2x R4, 1x R8, 3xR16, 1xR30, 5xR5, 1xR12, 5x Clio and the total milage must be 1 million plus, I would not be put off the idea of another one. I would therefore also serioulsy look at Dacia as a top value prospect and these too drive fine and ride well, strong warranty for a small outlay too. I had a Hyundai as acompany car and it was also a decent thing and very very strong! I didnt like the company and took iot out badly on the car which failed to break under extreme provocation!!

Having said this if your car has been properly repaired it is better to hang onto it as you have already had one loss, and selling will definitely give you another large cost. I do understand loss of confidence thing tho.

 

[portland_bill]

It is of course, French. When you think of national stereotypes, French and engineering aren't the first combination that might come up. The French seem to do engineering 'differently', apparently because they can. This does not seem to impact reliability, but does make you think a bit if not spent much time on French cars of the past. However, given the choice of PSA or Renault, I'd go Renault every time. They seem to have got better with some Nissan influence.

French cars also tend towards 'soft', which is lovely on our poor roads, but can be tedious if ever wanting to press on a bit. Might be worth trying to hire one fro a few days, give it a good workout, and get used to its quirks, then decide if you can live with them.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for the input folks. I'm in no hurry so nothing needs to be done urgently. I've had SEATs for nearly 30 years now - and there's been Skodas in the family too - but this has shaken my faith in them. This car had a turbo at less than 2 years old (thankfully still in warranty) and now the gearbox. The gearbox paperwork issued by the fitting garage also mentions O/S driveshaft showing signs of wear on the inner plunge joint. I've been under and checked this and there is indeed just a trace of rotational play between the shaft and cup. My friend at the SEAT indy tells me they are bad for front wheel bearings too. I'll probably have to do something about it -drive shaft that is - before next year's "road trip". My old Cordoba was built like a tank and I had it for some 20 years and over 100,000 miles - same engine, gearbox, drive shafts, wheel bearings etc, etc. This new car is much lighter on it's feet and definitely more sprightly to drive but the whole car feels very lightweight and doesn't ride anything like as comfortably. I suspect they've gone too lightweight with many of the components.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I would therefore also serioulsy look at Dacia as a top value prospect and these too drive fine and ride well, strong warranty for a small outlay too.

Having said this if your car has been properly repaired it is better to hang onto it as you have already had one loss, and selling will definitely give you another large cost. I do understand loss of confidence thing tho.

 

[Badget]

I had a 90s cordoba that I cheerfully put over 130 000 miles on in just over three years.
I didn't look after it at all and mechanically it was still going strong when it left me.
I did a similar thing with a 90s Renault 19
Both early 90s 1.9 diesels, both killed by rust.

I think even from then to now things are a lot different.
Most manufacturers make very little of their own cars these days, buying in all but a handful of aesthetic parts.

 

[porta]

One of our friends won’t have anything other than Renaults…always clios, had one of those 3cyl corsa (bought for her and definitely not her choice) straight back to clio…
I can’t fault it, it’s had few faults, can’t update satnav and only one persistent, seatbelt warning even though it’s in
I liked the MK1 clio, I liked the kangoo haven’t enough experience with the rest apart from traffic and master

 

[eeeno]

Well Seats and Skodas are just Volkswagens. They must be good because people keep buying them.

It's said that french rear axles on Peugeots and Citroens aren't so good. When it starts feeling like that you're sitting on a wheelbarrow and changing shock absorbers won't fix it, the french car is good for scrap because changing the axle is not going to be cheap. I think they recently discontinued the use of that axle type.

 

[porta]

I think French cars get the same stick as Italian ‘not known for engineering, cheap, rusty etc’ but it’s generally jingoistic or learned without basis…all cars these days are much if a muchness…
Go round all the dealers and drive them all, bloody fun if nowt else

 

[StevenRB45]

I think French cars get the same stick as Italian ‘not known for engineering, cheap, rusty etc’ but it’s generally jingoistic or learned without basis…all cars these days are much if a muchness…
Go round all the dealers and drive them all, bloody fun if nowt else

Well given I've had both (the scary thought on this one is in terms of years I've had Citroëns longer than I had Fiats).

Apart from Friday cars, which unfortunately seem a bit more prevalent than other brands an awful lot of issues seem to be caused by the owner.

It's a cheap car from day one, it's not going to be a company car or lease car and have money no object servicing, it's gonna be someone's second car and probably one they don't particularly care about. As a result service tends to be of "it needs an MOT and the engine light is on" suppose I better take it in to Kwik-fit variety.

My experience of French cars in the modern era, between my dads 2 Renaults and a Peugeot and our 2 Citroëns would be you'll get niggly things eg. Ours had a minor misfire for months (now sorted), or the rear lights used to fill with water on the DS3, my dads Mégane had a rattly catalyst. However across what is between 20 years of service none of those cars failed to complete a journey or failed to start one.

Only 2 cars I've had a breakdown in were a Suzuki (2, one was loose break pipe caused by a substandard dealer and a flat battery) and my Silver Punto which would start when it felt like it... until one day it somehow filled it's own sump with unleaded.

 

[bugsymike]

The problem for us who have been in the motor trade is we only see the cars with faults. I am not a great fan of Renault, though I have had quite a few along with most brands over the years. I have a C3 diesel Picasso with 223K miles, a Skoda Scout diesel with 150K approx. We always used to be weary of strangely low mileage cars as they had probably spent most of their lives in garages or bodyshops. Toyota always had a good name for reliability, Mazda I used to swear by in the 1970/80s but probably wouldn't buy these days. My sister bought a brand new Honda Jazz some years ago and on collection they had to get the workshop to connect it to a laptop just to get it off the forecourt, although in the many years since it has been reliable apart from several expensive coil packs the dealer fitted for a persistant misfire until I, 200 miles away suggest she insist they fit new spark plugs even though not due in their long schedule, this cured the problem! A friends wife bought a brand new Dacia 4x4 which brokedown shortly after with injector issues which took many weeks to rectify in the first six months of ownership having left her and her female friend stranded for several hours miles from home waiting for a certain well known Roadside Specialist that advertised about helping females in that situation!!!
Another guide is to look on the local Taxi rank for reliable/cheap to maintain vehicles capable of high mileages, in the past it seemed to be a mix of Skoda, Ford and Japanese.
Another point is buy a car that there is a local dealership that you trust nearby. I would say have a word with their mechanics before purchase, having said that in the mid 70s I worked for a Lada Dealership and a regular customer with a different make asked us in the workshop about buying one, being honest we gave our opinion little realising the prat would go straight back to the showroom and tell our boss!!! He promptly laid into us until we stood our ground and said we were not going to lie. Eventually we came to a compromise where we, if asked our opinion had to say "they are good value for money" meaning when translated "you pay f all and get f all"

 

[StevenRB45]

"they are good value for money" meaning when translated "you pay f all and get f all"

In the modern era this doesn't really ring true though.

Extreme platform sharing means it can be a case of "you pay a lot and get the same as someone who payed significantly less but with a bit of soft touch plastic in the interior".

Ours was 14.5k it's entirely possible to pay over 30k for car with exactly the same engine and most of the same electrical system.

Dacia (not a brand I'm a fan of to be honest.) use the latest Renault bits behind the scenes.

 

[bugsymike]

In the modern era this doesn't really ring true though.

Extreme platform sharing means it can be a case of "you pay a lot and get the same as someone who payed significantly less but with a bit of soft touch plastic in the interior".

Ours was 14.5k it's entirely possible to pay over 30k for car with exactly the same engine and most of the same electrical system.

In the 1970 a new Lada was around £992 if I recall correctly, we were also agents for Mazda, Moskvich and Wartburg. Generally the Mazda apart from the RX3 were very reliable, the Wartburg was well engineered, fairly cheap but thirsty and the Moskvich, which not a lot that's positive can be said, we used to spend two days doing a PDI to make them slightly safer to use on the road, but alledgedly they were built by slave labour?

 

[StevenRB45]

In the 1970 a new Lada was around £992

In today's money that's £19,633...at least in 1970 but even 1975 that still 10.5k..

 

[bugsymike]

In today's money that's £19,633...at least in 1970 but even 1975 that still 10.5k..

I suppose much in the same way people argue a Skoda is a VW, would you pay £10500 for a Lada based on a Fiat 124 under license today? Strangely providing parts were available I might, though definitely not for a Moskvich, they really were the pits

 

[porta]

Nivas we’re great cars until GM got their hands on them, that SPI setup was a PITA, and whoever designed the fuel return wanted shooting
My grandads Renault 12 auto lasted 300K +miles and 27yrs and was only binned because we couldn’t justify sticking a new gearbox in it, and that’s if we found one outside Romania
He had, however, had it waxoiled from new

 

[porta]

Well given I've had both (the scary thought on this one is in terms of years I've had Citroëns longer than I had Fiats).

Apart from Friday cars, which unfortunately seem a bit more prevalent than other brands an awful lot of issues seem to be caused by the owner.

It's a cheap car from day one, it's not going to be a company car or lease car and have money no object servicing, it's gonna be someone's second car and probably one they don't particularly care about. As a result service tends to be of "it needs an MOT and the engine light is on" suppose I better take it in to Kwik-fit variety.

My experience of French cars in the modern era, between my dads 2 Renaults and a Peugeot and our 2 Citroëns would be you'll get niggly things eg. Ours had a minor misfire for months (now sorted), or the rear lights used to fill with water on the DS3, my dads Mégane had a rattly catalyst. However across what is between 20 years of service none of those cars failed to complete a journey or failed to start one.

Only 2 cars I've had a breakdown in were a Suzuki (2, one was loose break pipe caused by a substandard dealer and a flat battery) and my Silver Punto which would start when it felt like it... until one day it somehow filled it's own sump with unleaded.

My grandad loved Renaults since the war and a very odd story involving a WW1 FT17 tank
My dad loved Citroens, again, a war story but Aden with a light 15
One of my uncles loved Peugeot, until he could afford jags, bought a new one then bought a bmw before the jag was even a year old
One of my uncles would change his car every time the ashtray got full, didn’t usually care what make so long as it had an MoT
My aunties, generally, have had minis then fiats, don’t think it was planned, they just seemed to migrate that way…one, with my mum, bought punto selectas, which were fine under warranty!
I’ve had all sorts but generally Fiat, mainly because that’s what I learnt on and, having worked in other manufacturers dealerships, they were no better OR worse than the competition, but were more fun…about now, the only fiats I would buy are essentially the same car, panda (must be 4x4) or one of the more sporty 500s, (including the Arbarth) everything else is just getting too alike
If I had to splash some cash on a car, I would love to buy, it would be a 130 Coupe and a 128

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

In the 1970 a new Lada was around £992 if I recall correctly, we were also agents for Mazda, Moskvich and Wartburg. Generally the Mazda apart from the RX3 were very reliable, the Wartburg was well engineered, fairly cheap but thirsty and the Moskvich, which not a lot that's positive can be said, we used to spend two days doing a PDI to make them slightly safer to use on the road, but alledgedly they were built by slave labour?

Reminds me of the "traumatic" experience when we had to give up our DAF agency and the boss took on Polski Fiat. The DAFs took a couple of hours at most to PDI and in fact we rarely found a problem, you could have just put them out straight off the back of the transporter. The Polski Fiats? Where to start? some had no oil in the gearbox or axle - the ones with no engine oil presumably never made it onto the ships? We had one which locked it's brakes up solid at the end of Princes street, on the day the owner took delivery, because the stroke length of the brake servo hadn't been adjusted correctly and was not allowing the master cylinder to recuperate. The brakes jacked on tighter and tighter with every application of the pedal until the car wouldn't move. Easy enough to move when we realized the system was pressurized, just undid the nipples to release the pressure, but it soon pressurized again. Took quite a bit of head scratching to figure out the servo actuating rod was adjustable and this one was extended too far so not letting the master cylinder piston return fully. Quality of metal was very variable too. Always a lottery taking something like a bell housing bolt out as to whether a wee coil of stripped thread would come out with it! Every day was an adventure!