Panda Oil cap

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Panda Oil cap

Caroline150

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Hi, basic question…but I cannot work out where to top up my oil on a 1.2 Eco Panda 2010. Any help greatly appreciated!
 

rmjbn1

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jrkitching

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Hi, and welcome:) Here's the procedure for checking the engine oil level (use 10W-40 semi synthetic).

Some care is needed with documentation and specifications for the EcoPandas as there were a number of detail changes at this time, including the engine change to Euro5 in the second half of 2010.

This is the wrong oil specification for the OP's car. The recommended oil for a 2010 Dynamic Eco is 5W40 fully synthetic C3.

The illustration in the diagram is also incorrect for the OP's car; in particular, the expansion tank is in a completely different place, at the side of the radiator.

The one I've attached is taken from a hard copy handbook for the OP's model, but even that isn't perfect - it doesn't show the A/C components, which were by then standard on the 1.2 Dynamic Eco in the UK. By this stage in the 169's model run, it seems Fiat weren't spending much money keeping the documentation current on a model which was soon to be replaced by the Panda 319.
 

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Hello Caroline, I can speak with some authority on this as our Becky is a 2010 Panda 1.2 Dynamic Eco. She even has a sticker on the driver's door pillar to prove it!

P1100095.JPG

Under the bonnet looks like this:

P1100085.JPG

The unit with the yellow sticker on it's pipe at the left rear is the air con compressor. right at the front is a blue cap for the radiator expansion tank (more on that in a minute) and half way between them is the oil filler cap. This is the oil filler cap:

P1100086.JPG

If you look just to the left of the oil filler cap you can see a fitting with an electric wire coming out of it - that's the camshaft position sensor so be careful not to damage it or it's wiring. When you remove the oil cap it looks like this:

P1100088.JPG

Does your's have a "pretty" purple "O" ring seal too? You'll notice that inside the hole there is an oil baffle so don't pour the oil in too quickly or it may overflow due to the restriction of the baffle.

I too find that the cap is stiff to undo and I sometimes have to use a pair of water pump pliers to get enough twist on it - as seen here:

P1100087.JPG

I haven't shown that I'd usually use some thick rag or cardboard under the plier's jaws to protect the plastic of the cap - it's not all that strong so go easy. The cap on my engine is "torque limited" - like a modern petrol filler cap - so you just keep tightening it until it slips with a loud "click".

Our older 60 hp engines do not have the VVT camshaft pulley which the later 69 hp engines do have. Just for your info, It's not difficult to identify the later engine as it has an electrically operated solenoid valve screwed into where the end of the wee yellow handled screwdriver - in the last picture - is pointing: Our earlier engines just have a blanking plug here.

We have one big advantage over that newer engine which is that if something goes catastrophically wrong with the cam belt and it breaks or becomes somehow damaged it won't right off the engine - which is what often happens with the later engine. Our earlier engine is also a more pleasant drive, in my opinion, as, although not quite so ultimately powerful, it develops it's torque at lower revs so you get a more docile and driveable engine for "pootling" around town.

JRK talks above about the radiator expansion tank being down the side of the radiator. Here it is on Becky:

P1100089.JPG

It's a quite solid white plastic and difficult to see the level of coolant through. If you shine a bright light through it you can then see the level much more easily:

P1100091.JPG

I'm mentioning this because these engines do not like running low on coolant. In fact they are a very robust wee unit and will put up with a lot but they really don't like running low on coolant and may blow the head gasket if you ignore it. I check ours every weekend that way if a small leak starts I can get on top of it before any expensive damage is caused.

Lastly, oil. The Fiat FIRE family of engines are not especially critical of their oil but I would always use an oil which meets Fiat's recommended spec. (5W-40 to ACEA C3 for our engines) Fiat's own spec number is 955535-S2. I'm very interested in oils and for a number of years now I've been running the family cars on Fuchs oil products. They make a good quality oil at a price point rather below the market leader big names like Castrol, Shell, Mobil, etc, etc. and I'm very pleased with it:

P1100092.JPG

P1100093.JPG

You can often save some extra cash by keeping an eye out for special deals on Ebay. You'll find your local Halfords or trade motor factor will almost certainly stock a suitable reasonably priced oil too.

I hope that was useful and that I haven't overwhelmed you with too much info? If You'd like me to clarify any of it please do just ask.
 
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It just occurred to me that there's something very interesting about the label on the back of my Fuchs oil pack - see last post

At the top is the specification with which the oil complies. I would expect to find ACEA and/or API ratings on any oil of good quality.

ACEA - Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles - See here for more info: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/t-acea-car-engine-oils-specification-explained.aspx

Then there's API - American Petroleum Institute - See here for more info: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/t-api-car-engine-oil-specifications-explained.aspx

Under that is a Ford specific which would be very useful to a Ford owner but, on it's own, of little use to an owner of another make of car.

To gain accreditation by these bodies involves expensive sample testing which increases costs for the manufacturer but it does ensure an oil meets strict basic (maybe not so basic) specifications. Personally I would not buy an oil which was not rated in this way. In years gone by the API rating was always held in high regard, and still is, but the newer ACEA rating is probably more applicable to vehicles manufactured and used in Europe so this is the one I find of most use today.


Next is a list of manufacturer approvals.

The relevance of these is that the individual manufacturers listed have approved the oil in this container for use in their vehicles and they have stated the suitability with their spec numbers (ie VW 505 00 and 505 01 which the owner will find quoted in their handbook). I believe for an oil manufacturer to gain accreditation in this way they have to pay the manufacturer a considerable fee which increases the manufacturing cost considerably. For this reason you'll often find budget oils do not carry manufacturer approval on their labeling. However if your oil can carries the relevant manufacturer approval for your car you can be very sure this oil will be entirely suitable for your car. So, if you're feeling a little confused by all that, you could say that the API/ACEA rating is a more general specification with the manufacturer approval narrowing this down to specific vehicle use.


Lastly you'll see "Fuchs recommendations" which I find very interesting. My take on this section is that Fuchs know their product in this container fully meets the API CF and quoted FIAT specs but they haven't actually submitted it for testing by the API or FIAT themselves, probably because of the costs involved. With a reputable company like this I'm very happy to take their word on this.

If you care about the oil you're putting in your engine it's a subject that can get very confusing with different claims being made by different manufacturers for their various products. However you can simplify your choice by checking a product to see if it conforms to the specs recommended by your vehicle manufacturer. Retailer websites (like Opie Oils above and others) can be easily used to check for oils against vehicle reg no. If you have a preference for a particular make of oil you can also do an "Oil Finder" check with that manufacturer which again will simplify choice. (for instance: https://fuchs-eu.lubricantadvisor.com/default.aspx?lang=eng&country=gb or, a more budget example: https://www.napa-oil.co.uk/oil-finder/)

Hope that was a help folks? all a little bit "smoke and mirrors" when you get deeply into lubricants I'm afraid because all the manufacturers jealously guard their own formulations but the ACEA/API accreditation counts for a great deal. Mind you this is as nothing compared to the impenetrable "smoke and mirrors" you'll run into if you try to understand the world of additives!
 
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rmjbn1

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This is the wrong oil specification for the OP's car. The recommended oil for a 2010 Dynamic Eco is 5W40 fully synthetic C3.
Oops, sorry:eek: I was aware the Euro5 VVT engine was introduced in 2010, but had never stopped to consider it might specify a different grade of oil.

Seems a bit strange that this later oil spec also presumably applies to the 2010 Euro4 engine, when my 2004 model specifies 10w-40.

The transmission oil in the 2009 handbook (75w-85) is also different to 2004 (75w-80). Odd.
 
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Oops, sorry:eek: I was aware the Euro5 VVT engine was introduced in 2010, but had never stopped to consider it might specify a different grade of oil.

Seems a bit strange that this later oil spec also presumably applies to the 2010 Euro4 engine, when my 2004 model specifies 10w-40.

The transmission oil in the 2009 handbook (75w-85) is also different to 2004 (75w-80). Odd.

I suppose the slightly less viscous when cold oil might allow the VVT sprocket to respond more quickly before the engine gets up to working temp? But mostly I would guess it's just that they decided to use a better, more modern, spec of oil. I doubt if the engine internals were changed to any great extent? The difference in transmission oil viscosity is also negligible so my guess would be it's the additive package which was modified?

I'm a great believer in using the manufacturer's recommended lubricant but I recon, in this instance, the earlier engine/gearbox would probably be more than happy running on the newer spec oils? The only thing I'd be double checking would be whether the transmission oil was a GL4 (most likely) or GL5 API spec.

I like an oil which is "runny" at low temperature so that it can circulate rapidly at start up. I find that the 5W-40 minimizes cam follower "rattle" on cold starts, especially if the engine hasn't been run for a few days.
 
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jrkitching

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Seems a bit strange that this later oil spec also presumably applies to the 2010 Euro4 engine

It does; 5W40 became standard with the introduction of the Eco versions in 2009, presumably the lower viscosity was needed to make the 119g/km CO2 cutoff for £30 RFL; one of the key selling points for the 169 back then. The Euro 5 VVT engine wasn't fitted to the Panda until autumn 2010.

I doubt there are any relevant mechanical differences that would preclude using 10W40 if you wanted to; this isn't an oil sensitive design. By now, these older cars have likely been serviced using a variety of fluids, and generally don't seem any the worse for it.

I like an oil which is "runny" at low temperature so that it can circulate rapidly at start up. I find that the 5W-40 minimizes cam follower "rattle" on cold starts, especially if the engine hasn't been run for a few days.

I'd agree; if I lived in Scotland, I'd give serious thought to using an 0W30 in the 169.

This is also a good reason to avoid using cheap oil filters of duboius quality, which may not have an effective anti drainback valve.
 
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I doubt there are any relevant mechanical differences that would preclude using 10W40 if you wanted to; this isn't an oil sensitive design. By now, these older cars have likely been serviced using a variety of fluids, and generally don't seem any the worse for it.

I'd agree; if I lived in Scotland, I'd give serious thought to using an 0W30 in the 169.

This is also a good reason to avoid using cheap oil filters of duboius quality, which may not have an effective anti drainback valve.

I can well imagine that Pandas owned by people who are not enthusiasts, have little interest in their car and want to spend as little as possible on them - and that probably makes up the majority - will have been run on the cheapest oil they can find. I've had some interesting conversations with people buying "special offer" supermarket oil and been appalled by the complete ignorance they display. "It's engine oil isn't it"? is a typical reply. However you still see a lot of 169s on the road so they must be surviving the abuse?

I follow your thinking on the 0w-30 - in fact my Ibiza runs on 5w-30 which is noticeably less viscous than the 5w-40 (both Fuchs brand) when you are pouring it into the engine, I've been tempted to use it for economy of scale - However I think a 0 cold rated oil in an older engine might just be inviting oil seals to leak etc. I like to choose an oil when I first start looking after a car and then stick with it. The 5w-40 seems to be a good compromise and by sticking with the exact same oil at each service I feel things like oil seals etc get "used to" the additive chemicals in that oil so longevity is more likely? I suppose, at the end of the day, she's run on it for at least 4 years now and I'm pleased with it so I'll just stick with what I know and am happy with. Mind you we live very near the sea in the middle of a big city, I might think again if, like Jim, I lived in the highlands!

The importance of avoiding cheap oil filters can't be overemphasized. A good filter will have a quality filtering medium, a robust case (if canister type), an effective anti drain back valve (that's the rubber diaphragm you can see through the holes surrounding the central threaded boss) and a well made bypass valve (to avoid oil starvation if the filter medium gets blocked but which will also ensure the oil is passed through the filter medium under normal operation. A bypass valve with a weak spring or poorly sealing valve will allow unfiltered oil to circulate round the engine, not ideal) I tend to buy either manufacturer branded filters or high quality makes, like for instance Mahle or Bosch, which I've come to trust over the years. I wouldn't fit a filter which didn't have an antidrainback valve, even if it was a vertically hanging fitment
 

chris3234

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Oops, sorry:eek: I was aware the Euro5 VVT engine was introduced in 2010, but had never stopped to consider it might specify a different grade of oil.

Seems a bit strange that this later oil spec also presumably applies to the 2010 Euro4 engine, when my 2004 model specifies 10w-40.

The transmission oil in the 2009 handbook (75w-85) is also different to 2004 (75w-80). Odd.
the latest euro 6c or whatever it is run ,0-30 oil I believe
 

Farnell

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Hello Caroline, I can speak with some authority on this as our Becky is a 2010 Panda 1.2 Dynamic Eco. She even has a sticker on the driver's door pillar to prove it!

View attachment 221370

Under the bonnet looks like this:

View attachment 221371

The unit with the yellow sticker on it's pipe at the left rear is the air con compressor. right at the front is a blue cap for the radiator expansion tank (more on that in a minute) and half way between them is the oil filler cap. This is the oil filler cap:

View attachment 221373

If you look just to the left of the oil filler cap you can see a fitting with an electric wire coming out of it - that's the camshaft position sensor so be careful not to damage it or it's wiring. When you remove the oil cap it looks like this:

View attachment 221374

Does your's have a "pretty" purple "O" ring seal too? You'll notice that inside the hole there is an oil baffle so don't pour the oil in too quickly or it may overflow due to the restriction of the baffle.

I too find that the cap is stiff to undo and I sometimes have to use a pair of water pump pliers to get enough twist on it - as seen here:

View attachment 221375

I haven't shown that I'd usually use some thick rag or cardboard under the plier's jaws to protect the plastic of the cap - it's not all that strong so go easy. The cap on my engine is "torque limited" - like a modern petrol filler cap - so you just keep tightening it until it slips with a loud "click".

Our older 60 hp engines do not have the VVT camshaft pulley which the later 69 hp engines do have. Just for your info, It's not difficult to identify the later engine as it has an electrically operated solenoid valve screwed into where the end of the wee yellow handled screwdriver - in the last picture - is pointing: Our earlier engines just have a blanking plug here.

We have one big advantage over that newer engine which is that if something goes catastrophically wrong with the cam belt and it breaks or becomes somehow damaged it won't right off the engine - which is what often happens with the later engine. Our earlier engine is also a more pleasant drive, in my opinion, as, although not quite so ultimately powerful, it develops it's torque at lower revs so you get a more docile and driveable engine for "pootling" around town.

JRK talks above about the radiator expansion tank being down the side of the radiator. Here it is on Becky:

View attachment 221376

It's a quite solid white plastic and difficult to see the level of coolant through. If you shine a bright light through it you can then see the level much more easily:

View attachment 221377

I'm mentioning this because these engines do not like running low on coolant. In fact they are a very robust wee unit and will put up with a lot but they really don't like running low on coolant and may blow the head gasket if you ignore it. I check ours every weekend that way if a small leak starts I can get on top of it before any expensive damage is caused.

Lastly, oil. The Fiat FIRE family of engines are not especially critical of their oil but I would always use an oil which meets Fiat's recommended spec. (5W-40 to ACEA C3 for our engines) Fiat's own spec number is 955535-S2. I'm very interested in oils and for a number of years now I've been running the family cars on Fuchs oil products. They make a good quality oil at a price point rather below the market leader big names like Castrol, Shell, Mobil, etc, etc. and I'm very pleased with it:

View attachment 221378

View attachment 221379

You can often save some extra cash by keeping an eye out for special deals on Ebay. You'll find your local Halfords or trade motor factor will almost certainly stock a suitable reasonably priced oil too.

I hope that was useful and that I haven't overwhelmed you with too much info? If You'd like me to clarify any of it please do just ask.
Sorry for posting on an old post, but I need some help please. I'm trying to find a replacement Oil cap for my Panda. It's the same as the one in this post, screw fit with purple seal, and code 1017016 on the bottom, as you can just make out in the above photo. However that number doesn't seem to find any matches online, and the closest Fiat one I can find online is Part number 71740676. Can anyone confirm the correct part number for this cap please, or does anyone have a spare one?? Urgently needed as I accidentally left it loose after topping up the oil today, and it dislodged and is now in several parts!
 

koalar

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71740676 is the cap I normally see

Later pandas, puntos and 500 are all the same

I would say I was 100% sure but Fiat have a habit of throw an odd ball part into the mix
 

Farnell

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71740676 is the cap I normally see

Later pandas, puntos and 500 are all the same

I would say I was 100% sure but Fiat have a habit of throw an odd ball part into the mix
Thanks koalar, appreciate the quick reply. Have one on order from Amazon for speedy delivery as couldn't find one in stock at any of my local auto parts shops.
 
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